Arlene Is Alone with Kendall Gender

Kendall Gender—drag queen, Canada's Drag Race star, and founder of The Kendall Gender Foundation—joins Arlene for a conversation about true allyship, acceptance, and the fear her community lives with every day. Kendall opens up about finding community in drag, growing up with a family that supported her, and why she believes we should focus on what we have in common instead of what divides us. This is a powerful conversation about resilience, what real allyship looks like, and why our shared humanity matters more than our differences.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

The number one thing that I wish more people realized is that like we have more similarities as people than we do differences. Right. You know, like how we express ourselves or or or what we do day to day, there's so there's so many more things that tie us together. Like we're not aliens, you know? Like we're not this like totally different anomaly that is so like I don't know. And I think that just the more that people I wish more people realize that.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

Why do you think people are so shitty? Like honestly, I it's the only word I can use. Hi everyone, it's Arlene Dickinson.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Welcome to this week's episode of Arlene Is Alone. Kendall Gender is a drag queen, performer, and advocate who's become one of the most recognizable faces from Canada's Drag Race. But before the stage, before the spotlight, Kendall was navigating one of the hardest battles of her life recovery from addiction. It was in the world of Drake that she found what she'd been searching for. Community, acceptance, and a place where she could finally belong. Today, Kendall channels that experience into the Kendall Gender Foundation, an organization dedicated to helping others get the support they need in their own recovery journey. She's someone who grew up with a family that stood by her, who understands what real alleyship looks like, and who's using her platform to create the kind of world she believes is possible. One where we focus on what unites us instead of what divides us. This is a conversation with someone who knows what it means to find your people and fight for a better world. This is Kendall Gender.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Welcome back to Arlena's Alone, and today I am alone with Kendall Gender. Woo!

SPEAKER_04 1:55

The crowd goes wild.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

I'm like, I'm fangirling here. Because you are like, first of all, when you came in, I was like, oh my god, she's like, you're beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Oh my god, you're beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

No, you're beautiful. We're just gonna go for a minute because we think each other.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah, they've got to love fast.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

But you you have like um like a presence that's really, really, really amazing.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

It's a kind thing to say.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

No, like, but because you it's one thing to be beautiful, but it's another thing to have a presence where you walk into a room and you can you bring light with you. And you literally walked in the room and you were you were energetic, you were welcoming, you were fun, you were beautiful. Like I just thought, okay, that's the whole package right there.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

That's so nice of you to say. Yeah, I feel like I often think about you know how you're gonna be remembered after your time here is is done. And I I always think that it's gonna be a feeling that keeps with people. So that's a very nice thing to say. I think it's so much more about the feeling that you leave with someone, more so than even your accomplishment sometimes. So that's a really nice compliment. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Yeah, you're welcome. But people don't always think about that. We think about we've got to do something, you know, like big, and you're you are doing big things as well. Like, so I don't wanna I don't wanna marginalize in any way the things you're doing that are big. But I think, as you said, like having that confidence to own a room that way, how do you get that, Kendall? Like, how how how do you where do you find that? Because confidence is so hard to come by in today's world.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

100%. And I think that also being such a like visibly queer person in a lot of ways, I think that that confidence is something that like I had to develop on my own. I think that, you know, I remember being a little kid and you know, being a little bit more fabulous than the next person and not really realizing that there was something different about me, because that confidence sort of existed like right when I was born. Like I was just sort of naturally like that, like wearing my mom's dresses and her jewelry, and I was like, I'm here. But then it's like when I got into society, if you will, that's when I was sort of told that I was different. And I felt that when I was in school or when you were sort of around different people, and I was like, oh, okay. So not everyone is as, you know, fabulous as me in that way. And I think that once I sort of started to realize that, it's like you kind of decide one of two ways, whether you're gonna, you know, hide and change yourself, or you're gonna go tenfold and push it to the limit. And now here I am in a gold gown, honey.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Exactly. You went tenfold and push it to the limit.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

I did.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

But you still had to have the confidence to do that in school in places where people were not accepting or were and were telling you that you had no right to be as fabulous as you are.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

How did you manage that?

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Oh, I mean, I think it's uh unfortunately a classic story for a lot of people that feel that sort of dislocation or, you know, they feel different than than the next person. You uh yeah, it's a it's it's a it's a tough, it's a tough thing, you know, growing up in in a world that um you innately just feel almost like opposite to. And uh, I don't know, for me, I always found those kind of like more, I don't know, detrimental experiences in some ways. I sort of started to develop them as armor. I think that's sort of like the best way that I can describe it. I think all of the things that, you know, weren't always going right in my life, X, Y, and Z, I slowly kind of started putting that on one layer at a time. And that's how I developed the confidence that I have today. Because I don't think that true confidence or true joy doesn't come with a little bit of a downfall.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

I I like the idea of that because a lot of times we we allow those things to make us smaller.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

You know, the the negativity, the the pain, the the hurt makes us smaller as people. It does not give us armor, it actually creates walls and barriers to interacting with other people because we feel we don't deserve to. And and and the the fact that you were able to say, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna take this and I'm gonna use it to be better and bigger, not smaller and less significant, is something we all could learn from because too many people do not do that.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Um, you in particular though, you have like you've I mean, what haven't you done? I was really, I was like, honestly, like you're you've got charities, you've got the causes, you've got, you've been on television shows, you like you've done a lot. You perform. Yes. Um why? Why why did you feel the need to perform? Why what makes you want to go out there and and show people who you are?

SPEAKER_02 6:30

I think, yeah, that all kind of just comes down to like the visibility that I wish I saw when I was younger. Yeah. I don't think I met like a visibly queer person until I was like, I don't know, maybe in like the fourth or fifth grade. Like there was like a lot of my life that I just had like no idea. I wanted to create that not only for myself, but for others. You know, I wanted for people to see that living a life out loud or or or however it is, I wanted it to feel optimistic and uplifting. And you know, I I I was in theater when I was younger, so I feel like as a performer, that just sort of like came naturally. And um I think I don't know, yeah, I feel very, I do feel very proud that I get to be that sort of like representation for people. Um I just always believe like you only get so much time here on earth. And it's like, why can't I just do everything? You know, like why can't I just try? Things don't always work out, of course. That's the way life is, but I'm like, why can't I just try to do this? Why can't I, you know, go for this show or or perform this or start this, whatever. It's like, I don't know, we only get one time here, might as well make the most of it. It's very true.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

But some for some reason, again, most people feel like they want to just fit in and not be visible, and and as a result, they I think end up having a lot of regrets in their life later on because they didn't live the full life that they could have lived. They didn't realize that time is short and they can only do so so much. Do you have siblings? I don't actually. I'm an only child.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

You're an only child. I had to create another sibling.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Yeah, you created your own siblings. I like that. Um, mom and dad were supportive like from the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah, my mom especially was very um supportive. I think she is very artistic and she's just kind of that that woman. And yeah, she was buying me dresses at home and she kind of just let me express in any way that I wanted. And even there were some friendships and relationships that she had when I was younger who tried to, you know, lead me in in a certain way. And you know, I remember there was unfortunately one friend that tried to send her information on like a conversion camp.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

And my mom was so against it. She like still to this day never talked to this person again, like hung up the phone. Like, she just was like, no, like she understands that I have been like this since I was born.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

I love your mom. Yeah. I'd like to meet your mom. She's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

And my and honestly, my dad is also fantastic. I think it's I think it was a relationship when I was younger that it, I think was confusing on both ends. Um, I don't necessarily think when I was born, maybe I was the son that he was expecting in some ways. But I think through the relationship that we had, it it taught him so much about so many different things. And now it's amazing. He comes to my shows and he he watched Drag Race. And uh yeah, he's like super supportive. Always like, you know, like if he sees me on TV, he'll send me a screen cap or something like that. Like he's so supportive. Um, but it was kind of, yeah, we kind of had to learn from each other.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Yeah, I I actually think that's really important to think about because that the fact that you understand that your dad was going, that's not the son that I thought I was going to have, um, but it's still the son I want. This is this is kind of understanding that it's not disappointment, it's just okay, that's different than what I thought, but this is exactly who I love, and this is who it is, you know, who who who Kendall is. Well, Kenneth, you were Kendall. You're Kenneth. So Ken, how did Kenneth become Kendall? How did Kendall gender become? So tell me about tell me about that.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yeah, I mean, my name obviously is Ken. So when I was growing up, a lot of people called me Kendall, kind of like a play on words. Um, so when I started drag, I uh it just kind of felt like a natural, more feminine version of my name. So it was Kendall. Um, and then at the time the Kardashians were really at the forefront of so much. So I was like just kind of doing a play on words, and I was like, oh, Kendall gender. I'm playing with gender. I like, you know, this whole kind of thing. And that just kind of how it was born.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Tell me about being on drag race for the first time and doing the show.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah, I mean, drag race is like the Olympics of any drag performer, right? It's the ultimate, you know, version of the career. And uh, at the time that we were filming was actually during the pandemic. So I went from just being like at home for months on end and then getting the opportunity to like make my dreams come true. It was like the the best experience I could have ever had. It changed my life in in so many ways. Like before I was doing drag part-time, I was actually in school uh before before the show. And uh then since then I've been a full-time drag performer. Like it's my whole job. It's been like six, five, six years. As a result of the show. You said I'm gonna do this full time now. Yeah, I was able to.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

So you got bookings and you started to your career.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

It's just so much visibility, the word of the hour. Um, and uh it just yeah, just propelled my career into this like uh stratosphere that I didn't, I didn't even know was possible.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

I'm curious what it's like to be on stage and perform. Like I I've never done, I've never, I don't think I have the courage. I've been I've been on stage to speak in front of thousands of people. I do that all the time. I don't know if I could perform. Like I mean, it's the same is it the same thing. It is the same, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

It's just a different medium, yeah. Right? Like I I feel like it's that, yeah, that same sort of like confidence. I I guarantee, if we gave you a little one-two step, I think you could do it.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

I am such a klot. No, you could not, you could never teach me to dance. Well, like I I used to have dreams of going on dancing with the stars. Okay. Oh, yeah, I could do dancing with stars. I they they'll never ask me. Like, I'm so I've got two left feet. I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

No.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

I mean, yeah, I do I do think that they're they they follow a similar sort of like parallel. Um, but I yeah, I I love it. I feel like I the reason why I got into drag is because I love that sort of like aspect of a performer, you know, like these superstar women that I looked up to when I was growing up, like Beyonce and and all these kind of people. And I, if I can find I've found a way to emulate it, like that's really it just brings me so much, so much joy.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

So I love that you're so optimistic and positive about it, but what's the hard part about it?

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Oh, there's lots, especially right now. Yeah. I think right now we're in such an interesting time. And uh, you know, with drag and talking about the show and popularity of the show, I think that the show progressing into such a big way, it's a double-edged sword because it's so popular, but that also means that so many more people are seeing it, which means so many more people hate it.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

And there's such a, you know, tide change that we're seeing politically and all this kind of stuff. And I think that we feel it a lot. I feel it a lot. I've even seen, I've even seen like a shift in in a lot of things, you know, even like in something simple. I remember a few years ago I got announced that I was hosting the Vancouver Pride Parade, um, which like a dry queen hosting the Vancouver Pride Parade, like it's not the most craziest news story ever. But they put it, they put it in the newspaper, and the comments were like astronomically horrible. Like tons of comments, like hating on me, a drag, you know, every slur that you can imagine, someone found a way to write it as a comment. And it really like, it just made me go. I'm like, whoa, yeah, people are a lot more comfortable with sharing their opinion on this. And it's it's it became one of those realizations for me that like no matter what type of person I am or or or performer I am or or whatever, there's such a huge amount of people that are never gonna see me other than this like horrible thing. And it's sad.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

That's super sad. And and so does that does there, is there fear that comes along with that?

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Absolutely. I think I think there's a developing fear of safety in a lot of ways too, right? Because people are so much more brazen about their opinions online. I'm like, I always think about when is that gonna translate to real life, you know? We all think about it. And it's uh it's yeah, it's it can be really intense. And I think that like the number one thing that I wish more people realized is that like we have more similarities as people than we do differences, right? You know, like how we express ourselves or or or what what we do day to day, there's so there's so many more things that tie us together. Like we're not aliens, you know? Like we're not this like totally different anomaly that is so like I don't know. And I think that just the more that people I wish more people realize that.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Why do you think people are so shitty? Like honestly, I it's the only word I can use. Like people are just shitty. Like, I I I don't know, like I don't understand. Why does it hurt anybody for us to express who we are, the way we are, when we want to, and how we want to? Like, I don't understand it. And I you know, and this notion of that it's a you know religion, uh first of all, religion is I think the root of kind of almost everything that's you know that creates these these kind of stereotypes and divides and these you know constructs that say you have to be a certain way because somebody's interpreted a Bible a certain way or or a religion. I mean, right now, you know, the the transgender the communities, you know, under attack, the the entire LGBTQ pluses community, the the the Jewish community is under attack, you know, black people are under attack. It's it's it's I just think it it it actually makes me sick to my stomach. I have to tell you, like I think allyship is so important, and I don't mean that in a like and the and the notion that people if somebody says that's this if anyone wants to comment on the show and says that was a woke comment, please don't watch the show because I don't think it's woke, I think it's just human. And I think being human means that you actually allow people to be who they are. Um, you know, yeah, right? Like I I have no no time for it, like none. I I don't understand it. Like I and I and I think it's and I don't think until you have a friend or somebody you know who's experiencing that fear you're talking about, you don't get it. Yeah, you don't understand that when you say those hurtful things online, or when you when you you know say somebody has no right to you know read to kids or go into a bathroom, whatever. Like, no, like it's just ridiculous. I I find it all ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Yeah, and and uh to be honest, yeah, I appreciate it. I think that obviously you have such a big platform and name. So I I appreciate you inviting me here today because that is literally the definition of Allysheft.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Yeah, well it it's to me, I I mean I'm fascinated by your career. I honestly what you've done at your age is like really phenomenal. You're young, right? You're young. You're young. No, but it's phenomenal. And let talk a little bit about the charity that you created.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Yeah, so I started something called the Kendall Gender Foundation. Um, so last year what we did is we raised money to pay for one person's treatment in a drug and rehabilitation center. Um so the reason that I started that is because uh as of well, this year I'm 11 years sober. Um and thank you, thank you, yeah. And I uh when I was first getting sober, it was kind of a, you know, it's a it's a very intense process when you're looking for treatment centers and all this kind of stuff. And it can get very expensive. Um so like yeah, 90 days of treatment was just under like 30 grand.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Um, so we were able to raise that last year. So we actually have someone that is just about to go into um a center right now, which is amazing. And yeah, in 2026 we started it up again. And uh yeah, I just think that I don't know, it felt just very important for me to find a way to give back in in in certain ways. And uh yeah, I don't know. I just I I don't mind talking about sobriety because like I just think that the more that you speak about things, sometimes they take that kind of like stigma or like pressure away from it. And uh yeah, I just wanted to help, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Did you know why you were drinking and doing drugs in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Oh, I mean, to be honest with you, I think it kind of goes back to what we were talking about in the beginning of this conversation. I think it was that idea of dislocation and that idea of feeling out of place. And I think that so often, especially in the queer community, I think that we find solace in substances. And uh, you know, there's just historically, you know, all the speakeasies and that kind of stuff, they're bars, right? So there's such a community that's based around that, and I think that I really fell into that uh really quickly. And uh it it just like rapidly took over, it took over my life. Yeah, like I think I was, you know, drinking kind of more casually, and then one thing led to another, and I was a full-blown addict.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

How old were you when you started?

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Uh when I first started, like probably heavily drinking was like 14.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

So a very vulnerable age, totally looking to escape from some of the feelings you were having out there. You just wanted to fit in. Yeah, you just wanted to fit in, and and you and you also wanted to be yourself. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, that's I think addictive personalities and people that have struggle with that. I think getting out of that is I I again, like I have such huge respect for that because it's not easy.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

No, it's it's not.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Not inexpensive, but it's also not easy. It's you have to have the sheer willpower to want to get through it.

unknown 19:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Does that world ever entice you back?

SPEAKER_02 19:48

To be honest, no, not at all. I've never um personally like relapsed or anything along those lines. Once I did get sober, I um yeah, I I kind of just have have been on that path. It's actually when I first um wanted to get sober, I remember calling treatment centers and getting pricing and and all this kind of stuff. And uh I called one place and I asked them, like, what do you do in a day? Like basically, what am I paying for?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

And they told me everything 9 a.m. this, 10 a.m. this, 11 a.m. this, yeah. And I wrote it all down. And I went to my dad, because I had moved in with him at the time, and I said, Okay, this is what I'm doing. And I just did it myself. Like I never went to the place. I just like forced myself to do it and asked him to hold me accountable and just kind of followed their structure. And uh yeah, I think once I the reason why I say that is because once I made that decision, it was it was very black and white for me.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

You're so strong in some ways. Well, that way too. Like nice pipes, like good muscles, obviously. Um, but you are strong, like you're just like mentally strong. Like that's not easy to do.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Yeah, but I I do I do think I kind of like what you asked before is I think it's important, yes, today strong for sure in a lot of ways, but I think that came from weakness, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:09

You know, right. Like yeah, what dro what what drives the strength is is having to deal with the things that are starting to make you feel less than strong.

SPEAKER_04 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

And that's and many of us don't want to do that because we don't want to have to face ourselves in the mirror. It's easier to blame something else or or look outward and say, oh, that person is wrong or that person doesn't belong, instead of saying, maybe I need to adjust my own attitude about how I look at the world and to allow everybody to be who they are, right? When you when you think about performing, what part of it do you love the most? What makes you feel like the freest? Where when are you the freest from judgment?

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Oh, I think the thing that I enjoy the most about it is the feeling of community.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

And I think that also comes with the the like not being judged as well. Yeah, because I feel like the the crowds and and the people that I'm There with. I always feel like I do drag kind of for myself, but also for the audience at the same time. It's not just about me. And uh yeah, I think that drag saved my life in a lot of ways. And I think that that was based on the community that I uh became a part of.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

And it saved your life because it gave you a way to express yourself that was entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I had done drag a little bit pre-sobriety. Um, and then I got back into it after I got sober, and it was like this, I don't know, it just it became this whole other thing. It really like uh I don't know, it made me feel just so much more comfortable as a person. I think it made me more comfortable with my gender, my no pun intended, and um just yeah, being able to like, I don't know, live in this planet. I really just felt like this is like what I'm supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

When you when you were on the show, you've been on more than what you've been on, drag race and um Camda versus the There's a lot of shit. That was a seniors moment, just in case you're not gonna do it. No, not at all. Um, which what what did you enjoy the most about doing the TV production and doing that?

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Oh, I just think that it's like I don't know, it's like a obstacle course of drag. So I kind of like the idea of trying a bunch of different things. And like something that I like the first time I did it, one of the challenges that I won was the roast challenge, which is like a stand-up comedy challenge. And uh I realized that I love doing that. Like I loved hosting and and talking and you know, being like comedic in that way. And it was something that I had maybe done a bit before, but not really like fully immerse myself into. So I think that that's the cool part about the show is you kind of get to try like every aspect of being a drag performer and uh find out not only what you like but also what you're good at.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Yeah, that's true. And I I mean TV's a TV's a very interesting medium to work in. If I if you don't mind, and if it's if you're not comfortable answering the question, don't. But I want to go back to the fear you're talking about because it's sticking with me and it bothers me. So when you talk about people being cruel and saying shitty things online, yeah, that's one thing.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Out in the world.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Happens just as much.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Does it?

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yes. So walking down the street, I mean, yeah, I think that there's not that's just a unfortunately a like a an experience that I've had my whole life, is people kind of like, you know, driving by and saying something. And I mean, I I can't say it's completely different than maybe like a a woman walking down the street and someone driving by and saying something, right? Like it's just something that I started started happening to me right before I even knew what my sexuality was. It's like they were telling me before I even knew.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Um, and yeah, it can feel it can feel unsafe, you know. I've had um like horrible encounters in like Ubers, like, you know, people will see you on the side of the street and they like won't pick you up. Um yeah, that happens actually a lot, unfortunately. Um, or just like, yeah, Uber drivers. One time I actually recorded one. It's uh it's on my TikTok, and I it was a very uncomfortable situation, but an Uber driver saying like crazy inappropriate stuff to me and exposing themselves and the whole shebang. Like I've had I've had some crazy experiences, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

How do you how do you how do you handle that? Like I'd be wanting to call the the police. Like how do you I mean I have before, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Uh and I I mean I reached out to I reached out to Uber and they were very supportive in that regard. But it's yeah, it's it's unfortunate that it's um, you know, I was actually speaking to someone who's like the generation down from me, and I remember he said someone said something to him on the street, like you know, called him a slur or whatever. And just like us having the conversation, I was like, wow, okay, so you're like, I don't know, 10, 11 years younger than me, whatever. And I was like, oh, it's not, it's not changing. Yeah, it's not changing. It's just like it's actually worse, it's getting worse.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

It is getting worse. Yeah. First of all, Uber should have given you free rides for life. Yeah, right. Like somebody exposing themselves and saying shitty things like that is you know, now this is the third time I've used the word shitty. Well, the world is kind of shitty. I have better, I have better words to say, but I'm not gonna use them right now. But I I I think yeah, that's just I because I I do I talk a lot to a lot of women, a lot of women, as you said, who walk down the street and feel unsafe. And you know, we spend a lot of time in society talking about the need for security and the need for personal safety and the need to make sure that we have you know um the right things in place so that nobody can get harmed. And yet somehow all of the communities I mentioned earlier are somehow getting exposed more and more to it, and people are are not supporting them and not defending them. And I don't understand it. I I really I don't. Is there a way that we can help change that? Do you think? Is there something that could happen in in your world or in in?

SPEAKER_02 26:41

You know, I think it's I think it just kind of goes back to the idea that you know we all have a lot more that draws us together than than pushes us apart. And I think that the more that people start to realize that, I think that creates a little bit more safety, right? Because if you you know, if you're if you're in a situation and something is not going the right way, let's just politely say that. I think that if that person feels that humanity between you, it can sometimes like de-escalate it.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Like if they feel as if you're so that's that's very kind of you to say. If I'm nice to them back, then they're not gonna be assholes. Like less nice to them, less nice to them.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

Less nice to them back, more that we're not polar opposites.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Yeah. I think that's trying to help them see the similarities.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

I think so, yeah. And I don't I don't think it, you know, always happens in the moment, but it's you know, conversations like this, situations like this that can kind of, I don't know, draw the line. And I I I often think about that if, you know, if I meet someone or or if I come into contact with someone, if I'm the very first drag performer or or queer person that they've ever met, I'm like, I want to make sure that they're like, they, you know, they they they left feeling like good about it. Yeah, and and vice versa. Yeah, you know, because I meet a lot of people that I don't know anything about.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Yeah. So I guess I'm I maybe it's this the space I'm in right now because I just think the world is so fucked up.

SPEAKER_04 28:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Um, and I and I think there's so much challenge going on, and and yet and humanity has become just so much about you know an us and them view versus a we view. And I I think we need to solve that because and I think social media is a big piece of that.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Yeah, double-edged sword.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Meanwhile, you're carrying on, you're fabulous. We love you. We love everything you spare. Keep on wearing the gowns. You keep on wearing the gowns, you don't give a red rat's ass. Okay, that's the fifth time I've sworn. I know I'm gonna stop swearing. If ever was a time, it's now. If ever there was a time, it's now. What would you like to do next? What's next for you? Like, what do you think? Like there's so much you could do. Are you gonna write a book? Are you gonna do a movie?

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Are you gonna Oh my gosh, I mean, yeah, I uh I I think maybe like a year ago I joined the actors union. Yeah. Um, so kind of been going more diving into that, in and out of drag uh working. I've been getting a lot more opportunities in that world. So I think just like, yeah, kind of diving more into that is my 2026, 2027 goal.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Tell me, in and out of drag. Tell me what that is for you. Like it's like wearing the costume, I understand. But are you still showing up as a woman?

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Are you like no, no, just like as a full-fledged man, like I kind of fledged man? Yeah, yeah. Like sorry, I don't know. No, no, it's totally fine. No, it's better to ask. Um, so it's funny when I started doing drag more full-time, it actually made me more comfortable as a man because it I didn't I felt like I had that self-expression, like I I like femininity, I like costumes and and the glamour and that kind of stuff, but because I had that outlet as a drag performer, it kind of made me more like chill as a guy. As a guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Okay, I understand. So you're saying, okay, I can now I can act as a guy, I can be a man on stage, or I can be a drag queen on stage. I can be either, and and I'm comfortable in both, in both, in both roles. Do you do you think are your parts the same that you like? Do you play the same?

SPEAKER_02 29:59

I was like, my parts.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Let's talk about I was not Arlene. I was asking about those parts. I was like everyone else going, like, what is she talking about, Arlene? That's not what I meant, but I I'm pretty sure your parts are the same, no matter which.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

That's good. Um, the parts that I play? Yes. Yes. Um, I mean, they can be, yeah, they can be in an array of different things. I was a paramedic on a show a couple of weeks ago.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

So you want, but acting is something that you really want to get into.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

You really enjoy it a lot.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Yeah. Yeah. And then will you write a memoir? Will you write a book? Will you do anything that kind of helps others?

SPEAKER_02 30:43

I just mean to be honest, I my like ultimate goal is is probably doing like a more of a movie. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of like especially based around I think my my struggles with addiction and and that kind of stuff. I just uh yeah, I don't know. I feel like tangible media that could live on is uh like that. I just I just feel like I would love to do something like that.

SPEAKER_03 31:03

And have you talked to anybody about that?

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Maybe you'll have to see. Is this an exclusive first speak?

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Is this is this is this an exclusive first speak? Have you got something coming out that we should know about?

SPEAKER_02 31:13

It's a it's an ultimate dream. Let's let's just let's uh okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

All right, ultimate dream. Well, stay tuned. I know didn't quite get it out of you, but I'm trying really hard here to but you are on that track and you are wanting to do something and there's something going on, and it's not yet announced, but stay tuned, it's gonna happen soon. That that's as close as we're gonna get. Do you feel like sometimes I look at my life and I think, have I, you know, like I've never thought, oh, I've peaked. I've I've reached the end of my journey. I'm as as you know, I've I've done all that I can do. I always think there's more to do that, you know, I that I'm whatever age I am, I'm gonna be able to do whatever it is I can. Do you feel that way, or do you feel like you have an urgency to get stuff done?

SPEAKER_02 31:58

No, I feel like I don't know, as I'm getting older, I almost feel like you just kind of move into like a different phase. And I I I do genuinely feel like the only person that I'm in competition with is myself.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

So I feel like I I don't know, I think I think careers and and bodies and all this kind of stuff, everything changes. And I think that I'm comfortable sort of like being able to move into that next phase um of my life. And uh no, I don't, I don't feel like I've I've peaked by any means because I think that through age and that whole thing comes a different sense of confidence, you know. I I I I feel a lot more confident now than I did 10 years ago or 15 years ago or 20 years ago. And I think that that's really cool. Yeah. Um so no, I don't, I definitely don't feel like, yeah, I don't think there's a there's a peak.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Yeah, with age, I think does come this this less being less obsessed with what other people think of you. Oh my gosh. More obsessed with what you think about yourself. I can't. Yeah, yeah. How old are you now?

SPEAKER_02 32:59

35.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

35. Well, you're still you're still young.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

So it's all the Botox.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

But yeah, I I haven't had Botox. I keep thinking You haven't? No, I haven't. I don't know why I haven't had Botox.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

My skin is great.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

I've got lots of makeup on, not you know, like I like lots of foundation on the things. I've got my mother had great skin. My the problem with being having great skin when you're older is that not that I'm I'm I'm happy that my skin is what it is, but my mom was in her 80s and people always treated her like she was in her 60s, and even though but her physicality was she was in her 80s, and so she couldn't do things, but everybody expected her to be able to do the things that a six-year-old could do, even though she was in her 80s. So, you know, like she she had a little bit. She my mom was one of those women who um uh she loved men. My mom loved men, she loved men, and she would always be about so her beauty became kind of how she defined herself, okay. Yeah but she was very insecure about everything else. Um, so it's funny how we all find ways to express ourselves, and she found it through relationships. Um I don't know what I'm telling you about my mom and very interesting. I went into this whole weird word about my mom and a relationship, but I think I I think my point is that we all back to identifying in who we are. I think confidence is just is such an important aspect of being a strong human. Yeah, because it's easy to let yourself be defined by your looks.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

Of course, right. I think even there was a phase of my life that I when I was like first starting to experiment with drag, I think there I was more doing it for the the male gaze than I was for myself when I was younger. Right. For sure. I think there was definitely an element of that.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Um, I think now it's it's definitely a distance, but I think that's something that a lot of people, or not even male gaze, I should say just romantic partner. You kind of are are you doing it for yourself or are you doing it for attention?

SPEAKER_03 34:47

And do you have a partner now?

unknown 34:49

I do.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

And tell us. Yes, I've had uh I've had a boyfriend for a year and a half.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

A year and a half? Yeah. And is it love? I think so, yeah. You think so? Yeah, so how'd you how'd you meet?

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Uh we met at a Vogue ball, actually. Yes. I know very, very full queer experience.

SPEAKER_04 35:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah. Um and he's a videographer and animator. Um, so it's really cool actually that we're able to actually like do work together. But it kind of happened very naturally. Um, and so that's been really cool.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Year and a half. Yeah. That's a long-term relationship nowadays.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

That's a real thing. It is, it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:22

And and marriage?

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Um, I don't know. I was engaged, actually. Oh, were you? Yes. I was in my partner that I had before this. I was together, we were together for yeah, six years and we were we were engaged.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

And what happened?

SPEAKER_02 35:39

Uh, it was not a good, not a good end to that saga. Yes. I got uh I got left in the in the dust in some ways. And uh yeah, I think that that also maybe changed my perspective on marriage, but never say never.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Was this all uh right around the time you're doing the show, right? Uh during, yeah. During, during, oh, during. Yeah. Because there's nothing like adding some drama in your life to a TV schedule.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Sorry, I should say we were together when I was filming and then post. So it was almost like I had we had two different experiences, like one pre-Drag Rice and one post.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

But were they jealous of the city? I don't think that was it.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

No, I don't think that was it at all. I think it was just it's just a very different lifestyle. I think also being like public-facing, I think it's just a totally different atmosphere.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

Yeah, not every partner can deal with the attention that you get when you're a public personality, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yeah, but I don't, yeah, I feel like we're like we're still we're still cool, like we're not enemies by any means, but yeah, just a different account.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

But you found somebody new. I did, and you're happy. I am very happy, and you're doing like amazing things, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Life is good. It could be worse.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

Yeah, it can always be worse. What what's the what's the message that you have? You have to say something to the camera about the world that you were living in.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

What was the message that you'd give that you that you'd want people to take away from your their time with you on the show?

SPEAKER_02 37:06

My gosh, that's a very big question. I I yeah, I feel like the number one thing that I just always you know try to put out into the world is that we are not different. Just because we look different does not mean we are different. Um, and uh I think that that's like the number one thing I want everyone to kind of feel all the time. And yeah, I think that when when life doesn't feel perfect today, it doesn't mean it's going to be imperfect forever. You know, I think from some of my biggest trials and tribulations came the most beautiful things. And I think that I always try and remember that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

Those are really great messages. And I I hope wherever you are on your journey at home that you've taken away the opportunity to think hard about treating each other with love and kindness and gentleness and care and understanding that we are all the same. So you see, cry.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

Shitty people. Shitty people.