Arlene Is Alone with Jully Black

Jully Black, Canada's Queen of R&B Soul, joins Arlene for a deeply personal conversation about losing her mother, Agatha 'Mama Black' Gordon, and navigating the grief that followed. Jully opens up about her complicated relationship with her father, her spiritual connection to her twin brother who died three days after birth, growing up Black in Canada while embracing her Jamaican heritage, and the beautiful lessons her mother taught her about femininity and strength. She also shares the story of how she met her husband—a love that arrived exactly when she needed it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:04

I tell you, when the student is ready, the teacher arrives. Like we literally arrived on this cruise, but I saw him, the guy with the lips. I saw the guy with the lips on the that's it. All I saw was the guy with the lips. Okay. She was the one. I was like, oh my gosh. And at this point, I'm like.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Up until then, had you met anybody that you were I was dating a little young ting. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:31

You know we've done the young ting before.

SPEAKER_05 0:32

We have, I have. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 0:34

So I don't think a little young ting, but it wasn't serious. And there was like 18 months in. I'm like, okay. So I'm I have like maybe one egg left in there. This young thing, like, I don't know if this egg's even like is it omega fresh. I don't even know if it's vitamin D vortified. Like, is this egg gonna even? You know, you might want more than this one little egg. Anyway, I I digress.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Hi everyone, it's Arlene Dickinson.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Welcome to this week's episode of Arlene is alone. Julie Black is Canada's queen of RB, a platinum-selling artist, and multiple Juno winner whose name sits on Canada's Walk of Fame. She's shared stages with Alicia Keyes, Elton John, and Celine Dion, and a few years ago, she changed a single word in our national anthem that got the whole country talking. But this conversation isn't about any of that. It's about Julie as a woman and as a daughter. It's about the mother who raised her to be both feminine and strong, about the complicated kind of love she shares with her father, and about the grief that stays with us long after the people we love are gone. It's one of the most vulnerable and honest conversations we've had. Settle in.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

Hi everyone, and welcome back to this episode of Arlene is alone. And today I am alone with my friend Julie Black.

SPEAKER_06 1:56

You are not alone, honey.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

I am not I'm never you're never alone when Julie is in the room because she is larger than life when it comes to her personality and the joy you bring into her room. You walk in and like you're like a force, Julie. Like you always have been. You're never small. You have that whole kind of vibe of I am here. And I and I love that about you. I've always admired that about you because it takes courage to be big and present, right? Like and not feel like you had to be small and inside yourself and unable to show who you are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:26

Well, I mean at being 5'10, 10 years old, size 10 shoes, size 10 jeans. Like think about not I couldn't play small if I wanted to. Because even in kindergarten, I was the largest child. So my mom just really encouraged me to just just own my stature.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:42

And uh and to be present, but know that they you still need to be handled with care.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Yeah, I love that. Um but but I I know people that are five, ten or or taller and who don't have that same presence. So I think it's it's what your mom taught you, which is you know, like own it, right? Own who you are. Yeah, I feel like cry already. And I want to talk to you about it because I was I was my mother had passed away. I don't know if you remember this, but um you were singing at a women's event and I and I was sitting at a table and my mom had just passed away. It's gonna make me cry now. I try not to cry this early into an interview. But but I am. Um and and you sang um Three Little Birds. And yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:26

And I didn't know though.

SPEAKER_04 3:28

No, you didn't know. You didn't know, but you saw me. You know what was interesting about it is I started to cry because you were singing the song, which was something that I used to play for my mom when she had dementia. Yeah. And uh you found me in the crowd. It was amazing. I don't know how you you must be a real empath because you found me in the crowd. You recognized immediately that it was stressing me or that I was feeling emotional, and you came over and talked to me in the middle of your performance. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_06 3:54

And thank you. And you know what that is? It's uh we should never trade the one for the 99. Like I've learned this since I was a little girl. Yeah, right? Yeah, and sometimes we're going for the for the group. There's a thousand people, but what about that one person? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

And so well, and and being and being seen at that moment like mattered. I mean, you you also have lost your mom, right?

SPEAKER_06 4:15

My mom had dementia as well. She died from cancer, but she had dementia. So I understand the double loss.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:20

You know, not to necessarily go down that road, but just to and Donovan Bailey, we spoke about this as well, because you you know, you lose them twice.

SPEAKER_05 4:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 4:28

When you're when you're when you care for somebody with dementia. Yeah. Right. So um, but I I love my mom's repeat stories. I have to start to embrace that she's telling me the same story again. Yeah. So then I start to record them.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

It's true, right? Like it's it's kind of a it's I I was recording my mom at the end as well, and I'm so glad I did because I have wonderful clips of her just talking and and and the funny thing about dementia, I guess not funny, but the interesting thing about dementia is that a lot of times the memories that um dementia patients have of of their early years are so clear to them. It's crazy, right? They they it's fresh. Yes, it's fresh. Like they think you know, she was remembering time with her brother and her mother and father, and growing up and her friends, and it was just like you could see her mind was it was like yesterday.

SPEAKER_06 5:14

Yeah, and we weren't there. So imagine we get a front row seat. That's that's the that's how I like to encourage people. You get a front row seat into their world when you weren't even you didn't even exist. Yeah, it's true, yeah, it's true to embrace it.

SPEAKER_04 5:26

How how did you manage through all that? Like, did you because I know you and your mom are super close, you know? So and I love that you say are. Yeah, no, because I know you say she's still with you. She's still with me, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:35

She's just in a different form, right? Yeah. Um, I could appreciate that I spent so much time with mom that where my family and my siblings, I'm the youngest of nine, they thought that it would have been really difficult for me. I'm about to say it wasn't difficult, but I banked so much time with her. Yeah, my whole life, but especially throughout the last few years, yeah, being able to appreciate the recipes, the the things that people take for granted. And so sometimes I'm just like, like I'd be like, Mom, I'm gonna go see Arlene. Mom, you remember you were buying all her cakes? I was buying all her cakes.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

She she was making, she made the best rum cakes, like fruitcakes, but there was so much rum in there, like it was more like a rum cake that was like. Don't eat and drive, right?

SPEAKER_06 6:18

Don't eat and drive.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

It was there delicious.

SPEAKER_06 6:20

You know, but you helped her in you supporting that passion of baking. I'm saying you in particular, because that was like many cakes.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

She looked forward to that.

SPEAKER_06 6:32

Yeah, yeah. And she was an entrepreneur in her own right. So she retired and, you know, factory job, and she retired early because my sister died, so she adopted her two kids. And so imagine being able to now relive that passion for music, me for making.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Were were you with her in the end? Right to the very end. Right to the very end. Last breath. Tell me how that was, because I was with my mom as well. So tell me what that felt like.

SPEAKER_06 6:58

Who did it feel like? Um super extremely surreal because I would I was still performing and going to do shows or having to work, right? And but every time I'd come back, because I moved back in with her. And so I'd come home and I'd put my finger into her nose just to feel she's breathing. She's breathing, right? I was like, okay, yes. That type of thing. My other sister was there, MJ, and my niece. And that one night, and I drove back to my condo. I was like, okay, mom, I'll be back. Then I give my little spiel, and my sister texted as soon as I left, she's like, come back. I think she's like her her breath is labored. And her breathing is labored, and um and then she left. And I was there, I did, I did my thing, and I didn't feel it. And I I felt kind of like a numbness, but then I felt this energy of freedom. Like, wow, mom, like now, now you're free. And I just like spoke into her ear, like, okay, mom, you're just the best mom ever, and all the things, and best grandma, and you taught me everything I need to know about. Because if I can be one percent of the woman you are, I'd be perfect. Um then I it got really, really uh scary. Because I knew when I left the condo that night, that was it. And I actually had I was booked to host uh like a Power of Now Summit, TD Jakes and a few other speakers. And they thought I was gonna cancel. And I remember um they heard it was like 8:30 in the morning. My mom passed at 3.30 in the morning, and I had my call time was 8.30. And they had someone ready in case. And then I just said, Mom would be like, What are you doing? We have to wait for the coroner. Like it gets really interesting. We have to wait for the corner, the whole thing. They weren't gonna come till 9.30. So she essentially she was in her bed, you know. We won we wander at home.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:03

And um, so I said, Mom would want me to come. And my sister was like, Yeah, go. But the audience didn't know until 1.30 in the afternoon when they were being kind of rowdy, and I was like, we get a measure of breath. And I just saw my mom spend her last one. And the whole place just went, hush. And to this day, that's what I have is my strength to say, let's not take this thing for granted. You know, if you got 10 minutes to live, who do you call and what do you say? And that's why it's so it's it was difficult. It still is difficult. I'm not gonna be one of those people, yeah, okay, yeah, you know, it gets easier with time. No. To me, it's like you have this rock in your pocket, like a stone. And it's it's there forever. And there are days where you're where you might brush against the wall, you're like, oh, oh, oh yeah, that thing's in my pocket. And there's times where you just don't notice it, but it's always there.

SPEAKER_04 10:03

I love that.

SPEAKER_06 10:04

Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

I love that. And you you've got you've got you've always been so wonderful with expressing yourself. I I I do I think that is one of your gifts. Uh because when you talk about your emotions or when you and it's not just through song, because you clearly do it through your music, but it's just as a human. You you you're I I love to listen to you speak. I could just sit here and listen to you speak. Just give me all your stories and all your because there it's you you there's so much richness to how you convey the emotions you have. And and we have lost that. People do not, they're afraid to express their emotions and to put it into prose or into uh a way that we can all appreciate um more. And and you have a gift for it, Julie. Like you really truly do. I I don't know if you know that, but it's like if you don't, you you should know it has real impact because when you speak, I listen. And and and I think not just I listen, but many people listen. Not that I'm the most important person you want to have listening to you, but I Well, uh, you know. If I am listening, then that's what matters. Um, but if if we think about your life and your journey, uh being the youngest of nine, I I I just want to go, like, do you think it's because you were the youngest that you had that special bond? You kind of went there, but I'm kind of I'd like to unpack that because you know, I think when when we're older, when we have children, um, and I'm sure your mom wasn't probably for the first eight, she was just trying to figure out how to survive.

SPEAKER_06 11:32

Well, I was a twin too.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Oh, you were a twin, okay.

SPEAKER_06 11:35

So yeah, the first seven um was yeah, just back to back to back to back to back to back to back. Um, and I'm the only Canadian-born child. I have my own dad. So the other siblings have their own dad.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

So you have a different father. Yeah. You're a twin. Brother or sibling. Brother, he passed away three days later. Three days later, okay.

SPEAKER_06 11:54

She didn't know she was having twins. Oh wow.

unknown 11:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 11:58

So that's why my heart is totally like um, I have such a a love and uh desire to do everything I can for the NIC units, like that world. My mom didn't have a NIC unit to save my brother back then. Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

So Was she did she have you at home? Was it a home?

SPEAKER_06 12:16

No, no, it was Mount Sinai. And Mount Sinai has been a little bit of a couple of here in Toronto. Here in Toronto, yeah, university have. But um, yeah, they didn't know. They didn't know that there were two of us in there. But that's also why I think I'm such an empath. I spent the first nine months of my life with somebody that was alive and well. You know, and we were I you know, I watched this documentary on Lone Twins, and they talk about us fighting in there and laughing and playing, like it's a whole life in there. Yeah. Yeah. And then for us, for us to come out into this world and then he's gone. I think that also informed why I stayed in such terrible relationships, and why I also for so long looked for validation from male validation and affirming, uh, you know, affirmation. You know what I mean? And acceptance.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

You needed somebody, you need this you felt like you needed somebody to complete you, like you know, your twin did? Like was it that you think?

SPEAKER_06 13:13

That's what I felt. And I there's also a a form of what I'm learning this in therapy, prenatal grief, prenatal trauma that I didn't know I entered this world with. How does a baby unpack grief and loss?

SPEAKER_04 13:25

You don't. And and as you grow, you probably, like you say, were seeking something. What did those relationships look like?

SPEAKER_06 13:32

Like they look like me playing small as much as you see me play big. Yeah. And it was very separate from the Julianne Gordon, the Julie Black that people saw as like the athlete, the singer, the student council rep. You know, I had all these titles that were easy to, easy in my world to achieve. I have a strong will, I put my mind to something, I'll learn it, I'll do it. But then the emotional side and this that mental, I was fragile in there and didn't realize that the external and the internal was not matching.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:06

And then add a little sprinkle of religion. There was a whole other thing being raised culturally a certain way, religiously a certain way. What are women supposed to do? How are women supposed to act? Like my parents divorced when I was 10. And I'll say this before you, before my mom, and before God, my mom. She would not have left if my dad didn't leave. And it was an abusive relationship. But in her 1936 born self, she had to stay. You stay, you stick to your vows.

unknown 14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Plus, it would have been very hard in that generation, our parents' generation, to go out and and be able to um sustain yourself and take care of yourself and your family because jobs, you know, women were not really entering into the workforce. There was not a lot of opportunity or training or acceptance of them. You couldn't even get we couldn't even get our own credit cards until 1988. So just think of the 30s or the 40s or even the 50s, you know, into the 60s. Like what our mothers went through is really quite phenomenal. And so and so depressing because they really were pushed down.

SPEAKER_06 15:10

Absolutely. And then enter an immigrant story.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 15:13

So now she's trying to figure out and navigate being in Canada and bringing her children from Jamaica, one by one by one, to Canada. Right? So when my parents met, my mom, I remember her saying, even after they divorced, it's the first time she experienced love. She was, she had a real wedding with bridal party. What I mean? And that I was conceived in love.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:38

Because what I I don't have the, you know, the proof, but what I suspect is not all of those pregnancies were actually planned. Right?

SPEAKER_04 15:51

So let's hard to imagine unless it unless it was a religious thing that was. You said I'm saying how what religion were were you?

SPEAKER_06 15:57

A Church of God, Pentecostal.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

Pentecostal. So probably very much a religious thing not to use birth control than to have children, right? That's it. That was your job.

SPEAKER_06 16:06

That was your job. You were a baby machine. That's right. There's no, you're not terminating any sort of pregnancies, right? And so this is where I'm like, oh, was it even consensual? That's a whole other conversation in a podcast. Consent within a marriage. Right? And so, but to hear, and I've asked my aunts and uncles, and they're like, Your mama's so happy with just pregnant with you. Like just hearing these stories made me feel just really good.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

So you're and so by the time you were the ninth child and all that, she'd gone through so much of her own emotional turmoil. Right. She was a different person when she was raising you than she was when she was raising your siblings. Only because she had gone through so much and had experienced so much and was at a a more mature part of her life, probably. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 16:53

Absolutely, which caused problems with my siblings. Yeah. To this day.

unknown 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:56

You were the spoiled one. The spoiled one. You know, I mean, they didn't have the ice cream truck truck in Jamaica. Sorry. It is what it is. When the ice cream truck came around and that song went off, Julie's booking it there, and Bob gave you my little my little two dollar bill. Yeah. Back then.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

But I I think that's common. I was the youngest in my family as well. And I think you get told that you're you're treated differently. But I I I think we also as the youngest, I know that I spent more time with my parents in a different way than my my sisters did, you know.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Big time.

SPEAKER_04 17:28

Um, and so I think that I think you re you become a friend and you become a um you're still a parent always, but the love is about a friendship and a parental love. So I think it's I think it is different. I but I you said something I I I I don't want to brush past it because I experienced it in in my relationships and marriage. Non-consensual sex in a relationship is a thing. Yeah. You can be in a marriage and be raped. Yes. You can be in a marriage and and feel completely like you have had to obligation. There is no no. Like you're it's almost like you're not allowed to say no. And when you do say no, it just doesn't matter. You are told that you're going to have sex or you're pushed into it. And it's horrible. Um, and I I was raised Mormon, I've said this many times on the show, but you, you know, very patriarchal religion and the you were there to obey.

unknown 18:28

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

And this notion of obeying somebody even at the expense of your own boundaries and your own personal space is very, very difficult for women to deal with.

SPEAKER_06 18:38

Yeah, it's and it's it sounds very similar to especially older Caribbean culture. Yeah, I've I've seen it for sure.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

So when you came to Jamaica, you were you middle class? What was your tell me what your family was like? Here in Canada? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:57

Yeah, I'd say yeah, I'd say middle class. Interestingly enough, my husband's just uh recently re- a wordsmith and very, very just intelligent man. And he was reading my bio, like he knows me, but he's like, let me read what's out there on you. And he's like, everything's talking about this really hard beginning. And he's like, but that's actually not your story. Like, based on what he knows, what I've told him and what he's observed, he's like, you come from a hardworking immigrant family, but that that did well for ourselves. You know what I mean? Like we weren't, we weren't hungry, we weren't, we didn't go without clothing. We like this is what I said about privilege. I realized we had the privilege, even though it's after my parents divorced, to have something like hot dog day, pizza day, picture day, you know, scholastic books. And I, this is recently, Arlene. Like I'm talking maybe a couple weeks ago, I sat to take inventory of what privilege looks like and those opportunities that we were not denied. But I remember having friends that couldn't get a book. Like their parents couldn't put them in hot dog day or pizza day or a school trip or camping or the graduation trip to Ottawa. Like I literally, just to, you know, people do um vision boards. I started thinking about like my achievement board. My just my life, not Julie Black awards, this, that, music. It's like, wow. We went to Jamaica as a family, we took trips. Right? Like, so so that we were poor.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

No. You know? Yeah, what is poverty? I mean, if it's measured in dollars, there's you know, that yes, I understand that we grew up very poor. But I think poverty can be measured in so many other ways, which is lack of love in your life. Right. Lack of lack of care, and you know, and and also understanding the sacrifices our parents went through, so we could have those things. Just because you had them didn't mean it was easy for your family. Are you really you're just plugged into my head. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 20:56

That was like my next thing to say. I'm like, I could imagine what my mom when she closed her door at night. Counting her pennies. That's right. She never showed that to us, right? And I but I have friends now that are very and I love that they're transparent with their kids. Because if your kids think that you can just give them the world, and that's their expectation, and things change, then what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:18

And so many are doing just that. You know, so many kids are are and and and I mean the the world today for children is so different. It's it's um it's behind screens, it's not with a lot of the the same kind of love that you know we I think that our children or my children had, um, for sure. Oh yeah. When you think about tell me about your dad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:40

I have a lot of him in me for sure, of course. Cut the veins, it's in there. My dad, Lloyd Gordon, though I love I love a lot, um, as my mom would say, with an everlasting love.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:52

Uh my first heartbreak was him leaving. And um how old were he? Um ten. And then I saw. Again at 14. So there was a four-year gap of just nothing, just radio silence, right? Uh, but what I realized recently is my dad was a love from my grandma. My dad has been a street kid since he was 12. And getting to know his story now, not to justify his absence, but I had to understand that his relationship with women and the first love story he was supposed to have never happened with my grandma. How he's supposed to protect and provide and be present and even sacrifice at times. It was he was he's been in survival since he was 12, and at 86, he's still in survival mentally. Still drives, lives on his own, got his um inspector license online. He's online, like he's not afraid of technology, but almost smart to a point where he outsmarts. And so I had to recently just realize I had to put up a boundary where I can't seek the validation anymore and the affirmation. He doesn't know how to be a father. He's never had to know how. And that's it's sad, but I also had to come to radical acceptance of that in order to attract my now husband. For my whole 46 years, I mean I just got married at 46, I'm 48 now. But like, what was I looking for? Seeking, seeking, seeking. It wasn't until I had to stop. And really just, you know, this is where my faith came into play. I'm like, you Julie, when are you gonna ever realize that you're actually more than enough? Without and my husband knows, it's not because I you chose me that I have some sort of new value. No, no, no. No, no, no, whole. That's the whole point to find my whole self, that baby that was walking around in a diaper that didn't know anything about what size her waist was, or if someone's gonna hire me, or race, or anything.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:02

That that truly Julie.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

So were you basically filling the gap for your dad? What was the relationship? So, like when you When I was little? No, no, no, even now. As as an adult, like where you said I had to radically say, I'm I'm yeah I'm removing myself. What role were you playing that was making you go, I can't do this anymore? Because if I do this, this becomes where all my attention goes instead of into a love relationship for for myself.

SPEAKER_06 24:26

A fixer? Yeah. Like the real deal, I call it like modern-day Olivia Pope, like just fix everything. My mom told me when I was younger, my mom was like, you know, you're you're gonna be the one, you're gonna get the call. Even this is when he was gone for years and years. I don't know, being the all type of resistance energy. And then he got cancer.

unknown 24:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:45

And I got the call, breast cancer. This is 2015. And he's one of one of the six percent of men to get breast cancer. And he had remarried and all that. My stepmother has passed away as well last year. But I got to call him there. That's what I do, right? And and to ask the right questions and to advocate. So that I'll do that for anybody in this room. So it's not become I don't do this because you're my dad.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:09

And I think that's what people have to realize. Some well, this the contents of your character. If you're doing this because it's your dad, then you're not doing it for the right reasons. Right. This is this is a human thing. Yeah. Right? And so, you know, he beat breast cancer, he beat prostate cancer, he had two strokes, beat those two, brain injury, spine injury. Like this. So this when I say there's a lot of him in me, that's what I mean. This the resilience of this man is next level. Yeah. Next level. However, I wish he just knew how to receive love.

SPEAKER_04 25:43

Isn't that interesting? Yeah. So he's physically resilient, but he is emotionally um blocked. Completely blocked.

SPEAKER_06 25:50

And at 86, you can be 87 next month. It's like it's about something we were speaking about with dementia. That comes out to a point where you you have to you accept. But now you want you you reposition. Rather than me trying to change your position, I get the opportunity to reposition, right? And decide how much of my measure I'm going to spend on this conversation, relationship, you know, etc. And so even with my with with my last name, for example, like I've been Julie Black since I was 14, but my true last name is Gordon. But it's it in my heart of hearts, it's not being a Gordon. It's really my mom's McPherson. If I could have been a McPherson, I would have flipped my name to her maiden name. Because that's who it's all of what I kids learn by seeing. So as much as we think things are genetic, what did you see? What behaviors? Right? I watched my mom with her friendships edit her peer group. Like, and this is a woman, it's not about education. She had a grade seven education. And I remember she would say, I may not be able to do math, but I can count money. It's like, yeah. She had the best credit. They're still offering her credit cards, 800 credit score. There's certain things that I just I followed my mom's breadcrumbs. Okay, Hansel and Gretel, you know? What did mom do? And then she finally got to the point where she forgave my dad because she didn't want to move through life miserable and bitter. Which is a very difficult thing to do. Oh my goodness. I'm talking this is just physical abuse. One of her two teeth were not real. Yeah, yeah. Survived the beatings that we didn't hear or see.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that's and that that is another thing that happens. You know, we we talked about non-consensual rape or sex and in a marriage, but there's also the abuse that happens behind closed doors that the kids don't always see that you know you put up with because you're in the relationship and you think it's you think you have to.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

What dreams do you think your mom had that she didn't get to to live?

SPEAKER_06 28:05

She wanted to be a comedian. She wanted to be a comedian. She wanted to be a comedian. I I I know that's why I'm funny as hell.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

You are funny as hell.

SPEAKER_06 28:12

I'm funny. Funny.

unknown 28:13

I'm funny.

SPEAKER_06 28:15

Uh there was a poet, comedian named uh Louise Bennett from Jamaica. And my mom finally, I she's like, I said, What did you is there anything else you wanted to do? Be she wanted to be a nurse as well. That's why I started the the foundation, the Julie Black Family Foundation, to help women and girls go through school. I saw my mom studying her George Brown nursing book, and uh then she finally took the job at General Motors. She just couldn't do both and take care of her kids. Um she was so funny. She said, I wanted to be a comedian. I wanted to be a comedian. I'm like, really? And so uh every I'm just like I'd like do like improv stuff with her on Sundays. I even have some of it recorded. Like, okay, mom, now you're so and so there's a fly buzzing on your head. And then she, I'm like, go improv. And she'd be like, come off of my head, stop buzz, puppe. Like she just do foolishness. It was fun.

SPEAKER_04 29:07

Do you do you are you and your siblings all close still?

SPEAKER_06 29:10

No. No. I'm close to one sibling. Okay, what happened? Oldest one, Doreen. The oldest one. Oldest one. We're 21 years apart.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

Twenty oh my my goodness. So I so wait a minute. Your mom had those seven children with the first her first marriage, 21 years before she had you? Yeah. Well, no wonder you're spoiled. You were like an only child.

SPEAKER_06 29:32

10 years is the old is the closest gap.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

10 years, but still that's quite a big gap.

SPEAKER_06 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

Okay, so you weren't spoiled, but no wonder that they all feel like you had all the attention. You in fact did have all the attention because you were left. So where are the rest of them?

SPEAKER_06 29:44

Why why why don't Yeah, it's it's grief could could build or grief could break. Yeah. You know, and I've never said that before, actually. Yeah. Grief builds or it breaks. Yeah, yeah. And in our case, it it it broke. It broke the she was the bridge. I have this this tattoo here. All right. My mom was the the bridge, the glue, and everyone kind of says that it's like cliche. Oh, it was the glue, like literally the the slow. Literally, she was. Yeah. Um, but my my most favorite sister passed when I was 12.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 30:13

Sharon Angela. Yeah, and um, we don't know why to this day. She was 24, triathlete, vegan art that public people were she was drawing, and people would go to her shows of her drawings, this murals, this and one boxing day, 1989, she just took sick, like she just seemed like it was kind of fluish. And uh, but the year before, she had my beautiful niece and nephew 10 months apart. So uh my mom thought that she was pregnant again. So my mom was like, okay, back in the day everything was closed in the holidays, now everything's open. So my mom said, let's go to the hospital for a pregnancy test. And she never came out.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

Really?

SPEAKER_06 30:55

She died January 10th. She went in December 26th, and she died January 10th, leaving a one-year-old and almost two-year-old.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

Where where are are they? Are do you stay in touch with that?

SPEAKER_06 31:07

Absolutely. My stylist is via Sherry. Well, her name is Chantel, so she styles me. And uh, she's 37 now, so they're grown people. And um, and Andre, yeah, he's doing well on his own. You know, so so they became like my little brother and sister, we're 11 years apart. Um, but I'm still Auntie Julie for the to them.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:27

And the and the other siblings, do you ever think about getting in touch with them? I try. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:31

I try. Like, what do we do? Do we have a meeting? Do we have to because it's after the funeral? Um, 2018, 2017, pardon me. I'll never forget December 7th, 2017. That's when life changed forever. And um the memorial, like I've done events, they'll come, let's go to celebrate mom. And but it's love is an action. And it goes back to that. How often am I gonna come? Okay, can we do this? Can we? Can we? Can we? Can we? And you know, they're in their 60s, 50s. Potentially, they just have they just decided what their life needs to be. Right? My phone is wide open. I have great friends who are like family. My best friends are by everything. One of them's here since grade three. I know she's there's my tour manager, but we've been friends since grade three.

SPEAKER_04 32:17

Since grade three? Yes.

SPEAKER_06 32:19

Asra, lovelays. Wow. And uh and Jennifer Saife, and we are, I tell you. And of course, my my niece. And I realized when I tell you my mom edited her peer group, uh, it was Aunt Jenny and um Aunt Jenny and Daisy. She had those were her two anchors. And I was like, yeah, I realize the quality over quantity, you know.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

It's true. I think, and as you get older, you are you become probably less likely. I was saying this to somebody the other day that making new friends is something that you you you think about your time. You have limited time, and you know it takes you have to invest in friendships, so you're not gonna spend time investing in new friendships unless you really find somebody to go, okay, I really want to spend time with this person. Yeah. And that's hard to do when you live in small or you know, like in inside of small circles, but you don't live in a small circle, you live in a big world.

SPEAKER_06 33:08

And it's not just you know it's a small circle. Is it a small circle? Oh, it's small. You see, this is the thing, perception. You would I often say, like, I can be in a room of a thousand people and feel by myself, be actually by myself.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:19

You know? Um I understand that. Yeah, I know, I know you understand that. Come on now.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

Yeah, I do, I totally understand that. I I I think I think that's part of being um a public personality, is you you you have to find yourself in the mid middle of a crowd and stay too true to yourself because otherwise you get you get absorbed. You get kind of um, you lose yourself to everybody else. It's very easy to lose yourself in a crowd when you when people want something from you all the time.

SPEAKER_06 33:48

Yeah, and I know you've already been through this phase, uh, just based on the cycle of life. You know what saved me is parameters and menopause.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:55

That's been the most liber this is the most liberating season of my life. Yes, true. Because scientifically, I just don't even have it to give.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

Yeah, you don't give it. I don't have it, and I don't want to I don't want to, and I don't want to. And and you start to realize how much you spent your I don't know about you, but I certainly did when I went through that phase of my life. I started to realize how much I gave of myself in the service of everybody but myself. Like I it was like it was like and I not only just bled every month, I bled for everybody else, every every day. Like it was like it was like it was like a constant um giving. And and and you and maybe to what your dad's doing, it was hard to receive because you didn't think you deserved that's true, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 34:40

But it's it's it's so freeing, it's such a freeing place. My new um um assignment is not having to hug everybody.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:51

But like people really try to like people run up to me even at the airport. I don't know, could I hug you? That's that's the like that's a Yeah, no, you know? How do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_04 35:04

I hadn't thought about it until you said it, and and I guess I do. I have a lot of people they they want, um I had a woman yesterday um actually do that and a complete stranger, and and and part of me feels grateful that they want to be close, and part of me feels very uncomfortable that they want to be close, yeah. And and and part of me doesn't understand, like it's just it's a very complex, and it's a little bit like okay, um, we just hug people, you know, but then but then you're right, like I hadn't thought about it. I guess I I need to really think about it. I hadn't considered that. What to you is it an invasion of your space?

SPEAKER_06 35:45

No, it's real now I'm really in this boundaries head space, and why do we have to be obligated? Like as far as taking my choice. Why do I have to hug you? Why do I have to stop? I'm sitting with my family. Why do we like I was just at a spa the other day, and someone sent me a message on Instagram two days ago. I can see you sitting there. It's my birthday. Can I come and take a picture? So I I didn't I didn't like do anything at that. I said, okay, you know, I didn't like to respond. Then they come to the table, right? And I finally I said, you know what? I'm here to relax just like you. And that's I'm happy those words came. And then they got it. Because I'm not working all the time.

SPEAKER_04 36:31

Yeah. And you don't, and you can't always be on all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:34

And then there's sickness. Like people are really wanting to step inside. And I that's the part that I'm really. It's my husband that's helping me. Americans are different. I'm keeping it real. America just be like, no.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

Okay, we want to talk about that for a minute. Canadian girl. Yes. How did you meet him?

SPEAKER_06 36:52

So, talk about um doing something out of your comfort zone. Okay. So I went on a cruise. Yeah. First time ever in life in 2023. Didn't want to go. I don't even like boat parties. I don't like yacht parties. Don't like I don't just, you know, just not my thing. But something said, okay, let's just go. Because my niece, my adult niece turned 50. She wanted to get me the ticket. It's Bob Marley's kids. It's called Jam Rock. So at least it was a lot of concert music. On the other end of it, all of his married friends, right? Their wives sent them on a boys' trip, and he was the only single guy. So uh her name trust her. She does like they call him Valentine Valentine, just give me your credit card. I'm sending you with them, right? Now, he's raised four kids as a single dad. His sister died and adopted her two kids, so six kids on his own. Everyone's grown, he has 26 grandkids. And so he's like, okay, retired Marine. Now he works in finance for the federal government. But he's like, okay, I'm just gonna go. And so I tell you, when the student's ready, the teacher arrives, like we literally arrived on this cruise, but I saw him, the guy with the lips. I saw the guy with the lips on the lips. That's it. All I saw was the guy with the lips. Okay. She was the one. I was like, oh my gosh. And at this point, I'm like.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Up until then, had you met anybody that you were I was dating a little young ting. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 38:19

I don't know. You know we've done the young ting before.

SPEAKER_05 38:21

Yeah, we have. I have.

SPEAKER_06 38:23

I tried to do a little young ting, but it wasn't serious. And there was like 18 months in. I'm like, okay, so I have like maybe one egg left in there. This young thing, like, I don't know if this eggs even like is it a mega fresh. I don't even know if it's vitamin D vortified. Like, is this egg gonna even you know he might want more than this one little egg? Anyway, I I digress. So the young ting might say, I don't want more. I need more eggs. More eggs than one. More eggs than one. We farm some more eggs. Anyway, so um, so when I saw the guy with the lips, and I was like, you know what? I sent her to go see if he has a ring on his finger. And he had some sort of ring, or he had some sort of school ring or something. Um anyway, long story short, I was like, four days went by, didn't see him. And I literally prayed, Arlene. I had uh some tea, water in my hand, and uh my baseball cap hoodie. Like I wasn't even looking like anything special. And I said, God, if the man with the lips is for me, put him in my path. That's those exact words. Yeah. Because this is like one last day left, with only one left. Okay. And I open, this is like eyes closed, eh? Eyes closed prayer. And I opened my eyes, Arlene. And he was standing right there. No way. Yeah, I get shivers every time. No way. And then I walk straight past him. Why did you walk straight past him? I mean, I didn't know the prayer was gonna happen to have to so far. You weren't ready for the ready for the answer. This one, ashra, like slaps me in the back of my head. She's like, turn around. You gotta be looking for this guy on the ship. Because I was like, look for him. We gotta we gotta search for this guy. She said, turn around and ask him, Are you here with anyone? What? And anyway, I did. I followed her script. She'd been married 18 years. So I followed her script, and now I'm married. And what did he say when you said it? So he said, No, are you? Because he thought that I was that because when you go on a cruise, your partner could be sleeping, could be doing Zumba, whatever, right? So shit. At the casino, you don't know, right? And then after In a cabin with somebody they shouldn't be, who knows? Because I said, Is that what your mama named you? And he says, I'm a marine, and that's what they call us by our last name, right? And he asked me my name, and he said, I'm beautiful and all that. And he said, uh, so the they do this like Rasta sunrise drumming thing. It's called Naya Bingi. So he said, Do you want to go to the Nyabingi, right? So I said, But are you gonna disappear? All right, and he looked at me, he said, No, I'll wait for you right here. So I went to go drop my water and stuff to my cabin and came back, and he put his hand on like this, and I and he took my hand and he's never let it go to this day. That's amazing. Like we walked off and we went and yeah. And so he came to Toronto like two weeks later, and I was like, Okay, he's here. My family, the kicker for me was my girlfriend had a heart attack. Oh, yeah, the day he showed up. And I was like, I have to go to the hospital. Like, I'm on I'm on duty, like we were rotating to stay by her side. And he just he's like, All right, well, what can I do? He was on Tim Horton's duty running, like this is a total stranger. Like, I like this man's character. Right? And so then I went to DC, because we live in in well the DMV, Maryland, and he made a toast, New Year's. He said, New life, new wife, manifest that shit. I was like, have it on video.

SPEAKER_04 41:53

I was like, ugh, okay. That's amazing. And then what made you go and move to the US? You're a Canadian. Why do you think?

SPEAKER_06 42:01

I'm a Canadian, and and you know what? It's um it's just an energy. Yeah. And a lot of my family's there. And in being in the DMV area, there's a there's a lot of black excellence. I get to see people, really black people, going for theirs.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:20

Really going for their education and not being afraid to stand up politically. Not like there's there's a certain level of beigeness. Like I'm a proud Canadian, Jamaican, and I still live here as well, like, you know, sometimes. But there's a lot that I'm like, you know what? It's time for me to kind of drink that that that potion and and work it in Canada.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:47

Yeah. And and so do you think you'll ever come back your full time? Or is he is he a true, he's a he's an American, so he's yeah, he's American American.

SPEAKER_06 42:55

We're we're I got my Jamaican citizenship now as well. So I'm looking to be a tree citizen. Yeah. And I'm I'm looking to like I'm also learning my Jamaican history and you know, my birthright, and my family has like land and there's a lot going on, especially since the hurricane. Like, where's what do our what does our family own?

SPEAKER_04 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:15

You know, let's make sure that we're not losing our land.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

What is it with a Jamaican people like you and Wes and Donovan? You you guys, you guys come to Canada, you like rocket here. Like you like, it's it's and so much so much grit and determination and and but yet all still very connected to Jamaica. Yes. Um, you know, it to me it's in the Canadian way, it's like if you come from Cape Breton, you'll always be a Cape Bretoner and you'll always try and get back there. Um is that true for Jamaicans that you like because I I think Danovan's family has property there, I think Wes's family does, your family does. Like, is it is it is it roots? Is it kind of this that's where I'm from and I'm never gonna abandon it, or you wanna do things for Jamaica or what?

SPEAKER_06 44:00

I think for some of us, especially the three that you're mentioning, because both Wes and Donovan are have started to even mentor me on just like my birthright, right? Because I wasn't a citizen until last year. And so a lot of our parents, and for those who were born in Jamaica, ran for a better life and didn't want to look back. And now we're like, why aren't we looking back? Where it's like prime real estate, or what about agriculture? What's like what like I want to get to know like what's the wealth of the land outside of tourism, right? And even though we have demonstrated a lot of mental grit and resilience and fortitude, there's still a lot of struggle in Canada.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:41

Lots, lots, lots, lots. And for me, I don't want to wave the flag of like frustration and anger and bitterness. It's like, no, okay, let's really learn. And you, I met you like, I think it was 2012 when we sat in the very first time. And the the nugget, you gave me many nuggets, but you all you looked at me, it's like you never be good for a woman. Like, take that for a woman off. You remember when we sat down? And that stuck like forever and ever, amen. You could ask Asra. I'm like, I'm not, don't give me the because you're a woman. Like, what is that?

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:15

And I've held on to that. And so there's a lot of women in my culture that are having to unlearn that. And I think finally, now, as I've continued to persevere and to show a softness and my femininity. Yes. Right? It's that's I think that's where the road is starting to really become way more just achievable and see and doable. I could see a way, I could see a path. I did I didn't see a path before.

SPEAKER_04 45:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:45

I really didn't see a path.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

That's really fascinating to me. I know that somebody on Threads had said something about um, you know, what roles do you think women should be able to, uh, what what roles do you think women should be able to have, or, you know, should they be good, would they be good leaders at it? Was something about being, you know, what roles would women be good at leading? And and my response was anyone they wanted to do. Well, any any role they want to be in. And this is the whole point. It it's not about, and it you you can do anything, doesn't matter if you're a woman, a man, or it doesn't matter what you are. But this notion that we push ourselves down into saying, uh, it's not for me because it's not for women. It it just it astounds me. Like, what do you mean it's not for women? It can be for anybody. Anybody can do anything they want. But I I I particularly, you said something that I don't know if you understand how it shows up. That you've embraced your femininity. You are different. It's like you are owning being a woman now in a way that says, I love that I am a feminine woman, because that doesn't make me less strong. And I I love that. I can I can I can feel it. Like, no, I can feel it, Julie. Like you really are like you're you're you're yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:02

Thank you. We're both crying again. I don't, I know, and uh doesn't make you less of a woman. It's it goes full circle because um you can be feminine and be strong. You can be feminine and be strong. Yeah. You know, and and I've even taken that S off. Like I when I've some of the I had some non-negotiables with Valentine and the What are they? And what the one of them in particular was um, I've taken the S off my chest. I've never heard any personally, I haven't heard anyone say strong Asian woman, strong white woman, strong South Asian, strong. The strong black woman title has gotten a lot of us in trouble, especially in healthcare, but that's a whole other thing. And I just said I just want to feel safe, seen, and soft. And seen whether you're in the room or not. Safe whether you're in the room or not. And my soft life isn't a birkenbag. You know, how about resting without guilt? Could we just get some rest? Could we be able to say no and mean it? Right? And so even me cutting my hair, at one point in life I would think that wasn't feminine. And I beautiful, you know, thank you. I did it, I I have my mom's face. Like when I so when I cut my hair, I feel like I see my mom more when I cut my hair. Because I've only met my mom. I met my mom with short hair. Yeah. I was born into this world and she had short hair, right? And I never I never heard my mom negotiate her femininity.

SPEAKER_04 48:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:50

And so there's all these titles and how you identify, and that's I respect all that. When I come from a generation that it was just, my mom would say, You're a woo man. Walk with your womb. You're a woo man, Julie. And she helped me understand that with her. Before she died early, she asked me. She said, Do you want to be a mother? Do you want to have a baby? This is me at 40 years old at her bedside. And I didn't even think. I said, I want to be a mother. And she said, Good. You have your whole life. Yeah. You have your whole life to be a mother. Yeah, that's right. And I marry a man with 26 grandkids. His daughter Shantae is about to have her third baby. Yeah. And I'm like, because he comes from a family. And he he, you know, where it's like, oh, thank you. Where he was like, he told his kids, he said, I told my children, don't think that you cannot be a parent and be successful. He's like, Nancy Belusi had six kids and a husband and still ran her position in in government.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

Ruth Ginsburg. Right. You know, there's so many. The list goes on of strong women who have, um as you said, even if they haven't had their own children biologically, they are raising children by by being examples and they're raising the world, which is what the world needs right now. Um that's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:33

And so for me, for the longest time, after mom, I wasn't trying to I was trying to figure out what where does my voice belong? Who can I be an amplified voice for, including myself? Yeah. And that's where some of my activism, that's where some of the just humanitarian work and just not being unafraid to say, hey, you know, home on native land, being able to just be like, you know what? Because when you and you and I both know, like when you've experienced your best friend leaving physical form, then things just don't scare you the way they used to.

SPEAKER_04 51:13

And I think as you get older and you get closer to your own mortality, um, you know, it's uh it's funny. I I had David Suzuki on the show and listening to him, it was his 90th birthday, and he was so in touch with his mortality. And so at you could just tell he's at peace with his age, and he recognizes that time is finite. And he he may live another 20 years. I I hope he does. Um, but he's still, and I feel that way at this age. I feel that way very much. That you know, like um, and I say it over and over again that at as you as we age, um, and as the world is changing so much that back to what we first started talking about, that being big in the world and not letting the world push you down is so important. Standing up, leading with your room, and not being embarrassed that you're leading with, you know, your your the fact that you're a woman. Um all of those things, not embarrassed or feeling that you can't, I guess, feeling somehow less than. I I think the world is just starting to see the power of women. And it's and it's women like you that are showing that, Julie. Like I I I respect you so much, like so much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 52:25

Thank you. I do too. I respect you. Yeah. I see you. Yeah. I see, I see you. Yeah, yeah. And you know, I could only imagine, um, this is why I asked, like, how do you how do you deal with like the hug situation? Or like some of us are moving through this world as you know, public figures. But are we able to say, how did you actually deal with that? Or how do you, you know, but now I want to ask, I'm asking those questions more.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

Yeah, I think we have to ask ourselves. And I think um, I would say that right now, I'm being very vocal about what's going on in the world. I I'm unafraid to talk about what I feel about, you know, the the authoritarianism that's happening in the United States. Um, you know, I I I I'm I'm unafraid to talk about the fact that this war with Iran should not be happening, you know. There's there's many things that we can talk about that I have and and it's my opinion. It doesn't have to be your opinion, it doesn't have to be anybody's opinion, it's what I believe. And and I also understand the difference between right and wrong. And and we were raised that way. And so when I see it, I I address it. And and saying those things and being a person with a platform in Canada and being unafraid to speak out, what you you become is a um proxy for other people's um feelings. And so you become the proxy voice for what they can't express because they have fear, because they're in jobs that they can't say what they feel, because they're in relationships that don't allow them to speak their minds, because they um can't put into words the way they feel, because they have never been asked their opinion. Right. And um, and so I do feel right now a deep sense of obligation and um patriotism and desire to represent the voice of people who can't speak for themselves. Because everybody should have that voice, and not everybody does. And so it's it's been an interesting time for me, I was, is what I would say.

SPEAKER_06 54:26

Well, we're grateful for you. I'm telling you, I'm grateful for you. Yeah, back at you. All these years, and it's a thing, it it's a you know, lived experience. You cannot you it's like your life is a masterclass. Yeah, I know about that. But it is well, you don't have to be my I'm telling you, you know, and if our if our mothers could have given their own masterclass and asked us sit at their feet and actually take it in, now it's like so what are we going to accept that what we've lived through, there's no there isn't a course at any university that could be taught that could teach it. Cannot.

SPEAKER_04 55:13

No, it's true. It the School of Hard Knocks is one of the best schools, and unfortunately, some of the one of the cruelest schools. It can be the cruel school and it could be a an amazing school. But do you do you you know, I hope you hold on to your Canadian citizenship. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 55:28

Canadian forever, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, stay Canadian. I'm Canadian citizen, I'm not looking for citizenship.

SPEAKER_04 55:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and and and I maybe we'll get Valentine to realize that he really should be living up here. He's listening he's thinking about it.

SPEAKER_06 55:43

With everything that's because he has like three years to retire, so you know, we'll see what's up. He's still an active Marine? No, no, he still works for the government. He still works for the government, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Another way.

SPEAKER_04 55:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. In another way. In another way.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

Um anything you want to say to our viewers?

SPEAKER_06 56:04

Um, I just have such a space of gratitude, you know. And um I just want I I wouldn't speak right here, I can speak directly to I just want to say it really it takes a single match to rid a room of darkness. And I want us to keep our lights on as much as possible. And so as you're sitting behind your screen or wherever you see this, I just want you to do this with me.

SPEAKER_07 56:34

This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine. Oh, this little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine. This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine. It says, let it shine, not make it shine.

SPEAKER_06 56:56

There's a difference.

SPEAKER_07 56:58

Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine.

SPEAKER_04 57:07

Love you. See you next time. I'll hear to leave this alone.