Arlene Is Alone with Sarah Nurse

Olympic gold medalist and PWHL star Sarah Nurse joins Arlene for an honest conversation about family, femininity, and the strength it takes to lead. They talk about growing up in a famously athletic family, how her parents shielded her from the politics of elite sport, and why she refuses to see femininity as being in conflict with serious competition. It’s a conversation about redefining what an athlete is allowed to be: ambitious and gentle, competitive and feminine, public and deeply private.

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:04

I think like when I started hockey, there were people who were making comments about me being a girl, um, being a little biracial black girl playing hockey. And I think my parents, again, my support system did an amazing job of sheltering me. But um, I remember one time when I was growing up, somebody said, like, the closest thing that you'll ever get to playing or being around professional hockey is if you marry a professional hockey player.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Oh, come on.

SPEAKER_07 0:27

Right. And so, like, that was how women were viewed in sport and viewed in the hockey space at the time that I was growing up. And so I remember that's always stuck with me because at the point at that point there was no path for women to play hockey. And so it was like, I want to prove this guy wrong, but maybe he's right because I don't have a league to play in. And so those are little comments that have stuck with me that I think are really funny now because out of all of the young boys that I played hockey with, like I'm still the one who's standing and I'm still the one who's playing professional hockey. Yes, so take that.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Hi everyone, it's Arlene Dickinson. Welcome to this week's episode of Arlene Is Alone.

SPEAKER_06 1:02

This week on Arlene is alone, Arlene sits down with Sarah Nurse, Olympic gold medalist, two-time Olympian, and one of the most influential voices in women's hockey today. Sarah made history at the 2022 Beijing Olympics, winning gold with Team Canada, setting a single tournament scoring record, and becoming the first black woman to win Olympic gold in hockey. She now plays for the Vancouver Golden Eyes in the PWHL, and off the ice she's helped build professional women's hockey into what it's becoming. But this conversation goes well past the medals. She and Arlene get into why femininity belongs in sport, what real connection looks like to her, and how she navigates a very public career as an introvert. It's a conversation about who you get to be when you stop choosing between ambition and the rest of yourself. Here's Sarah Nurse.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Hi everyone, and welcome back to Arlene is alone, and today I am alone with Sarah Nurse.

SPEAKER_07 2:11

Hi.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Hi, Sarah. Very happy to have you sitting here. Like you're crazy accomplished, and you have a presence. And I I've said this to a few of my guests. Like Julie Black, I feel like, is the same. When she walks in a room, you the aura. Either aura or she have the same thing.

SPEAKER_07 2:26

Oh my gosh, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

Wow, that is such a great compliment. And your eyes remind me of my daughter's eyes. Oh, I love that. Yeah, very similar. Yeah, very similar. So I try not to get to know my guests too much before they come on because I like to have a conversation where we're just talking. Um, and I learn things about you because I'm curious. I'm a curious person. And but I couldn't help but see, first of all, you come from a very athletic family.

SPEAKER_07 2:50

Yeah, everybody's uh we always joke like that's just what they we had a lot of energy as kids, and so that's what they did. But um, my dad's family, they've huge athletic family, they played so many different sports, and so um when we were growing up, my brothers, my cousins, and I, we were always just playing sports together. That was like an outlet for us, that was a way to be together and also get that energy out. And so it's funny, we've all kind of taken our own different paths with sports. Like we kind of touch football and basketball and hockey, and it's cool to be able to pull from so many different experiences from different fields, really. Um, because you know, Kia, who's a basketball player, she has a very different experience than I do as a hockey player. But at the end of the day, it's cool to pull those experiences and have that really big support system.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

Who's the best athlete in the family?

SPEAKER_07 3:32

Oh, I wish it was me, but I'm gonna have to say it's Kia. Really? She's a crazy athlete. Like she we do track together, we do basketball, different sports together, soccer, and she was number one. I was number two, but I was definitely a distant number two. She's a crazy athlete.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

I'm not surprised you said that though, because like you are you're very much about giving other people their flowers. Like you are very much about complimenting other people and telling them that they're doing really great and they're better, even when you are so accomplished yourself. Is that like a humility that you have? Or why are you so generous with your compliments of other people, do you think?

SPEAKER_07 4:08

I really think that it's because people deserve to know that they're valued and that they've accomplished great things, and like I they feel seen, you know, when you give those compliments and they're always warranted and very deserved. And I think that sometimes we get away from that. Um there's like jealousy, there's comparison, and I think that what you put out into the world is really what you get back. And so when I see somebody who has a great outfit, or when I see somebody who, you know, has reached an elite stage in sports or business, like you want to let those people know because sometimes you forget, like there are so many accomplishments or so many things that you do throughout a day that some things go unnoticed, and so mentioning the little things and making sure people get their flowers are really important to me.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

Yeah, and you do it so well, especially for up-and-coming players, right? Is that kind of something that you want to have as a legacy to make sure that you're helping young women be better in themselves as well as in their sport?

SPEAKER_07 5:00

Definitely. I think that I've always wanted to just empower the next generation. I've obviously used hockey as a vehicle to do that, and getting women to understand that there's a place for them in the spaces that they don't traditionally think that they have a chair. Um, I'm obviously very familiar with the sports industry, and so I want to show women that not only can you be on the field, the court, or the ice, you can also be an executive, you can be a coach, you can be behind the bench. Like there are so many ways that you can touch sport as a woman, and especially now with the PWHL, the WMBA, the NSL, like there are so many leagues for women, um, and there's so many amazing women amazing women backing those leagues.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Yeah, it's interesting to me because I think that uh a lot of times you get into these sports and you don't see the opportunity, you know, outside of like adjacent to the sport. So I always say to people, I'm never gonna be a supermodel, but that doesn't mean I couldn't buy a supermodel agency for sure. You know, it doesn't mean you can't be engaged somehow in it if you if you like whatever that is, right? Absolutely. And that's what you're saying, that they can do so much more than just play. Not that playing is in in and of itself a big deal. It is, but outside of playing, what else could you do to contribute?

SPEAKER_07 6:06

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's the most important thing because I feel very blessed and very grateful to be in the place that I've gotten to today and being able to live out my dream and play hockey. But um there are so many people that I've encountered along the way who have been such an integral part of my journey who have never played hockey, but they still touch sport. And so I think that that's one of the biggest things that I definitely want to get across because there are so many women who are interested in sport and don't necessarily think that they can have an impact on the industry.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

Yeah, I think people don't always know that are around um whether it's successful business or athletes or people who are you know rising in their field how much you need the support of other people around you and you rely on it because you can't do it all. And in fact, you're not good at the other things, you don't know how to do it all. At least that's me. Like I don't know how to do so much of this stuff. Yeah, but I'm so grateful that I have people around me that do.

SPEAKER_07 6:57

Yes, I'm like a delegation queen. Like, I yes, I'm not trying to be an expert in 500 different things. Like, I really do think that um your life gets a lot less stressful and you realize how good other people are at other things, and when you stop micromanaging um whatever you need to do, I really think that's when you really excel and take off because you surround yourself with people, you value these people, um, and they really value the work that they do alongside of you.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

Right. You grew up in an athletic family, you saw people striving to achieve lots of things, which is super cool because I think models, role models are so important. But then you had to step out into the real world where there wasn't anybody that looked like you playing hockey, doing the things that you have done. Like, what was that like? Like I've talked to Haley Wickenheiser a lot about how she first got into the sport and some of the things that she encountered in her, you know, whether it's the dressing rooms, not even having a dressing room, having to go into the bathroom to change because there was no dressing room, all of those things. What did you encounter that was just really like shocking to you?

SPEAKER_07 8:01

Yeah, it was definitely a journey. And I think uh Haley's for sure a trailblazer, and she encountered a lot of things on an even magnified scale than I did by the time that I came around. And so I think like when I started hockey, there were people who were making comments about me being a girl, um, being a little biracial black girl playing hockey. And I think my parents, again, my support system did an amazing job of sheltering me. But um I remember one time when I was growing up, somebody said, like, the closest thing that you'll ever get to playing or being around professional hockey is if you marry a professional hockey player.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Oh, come on.

SPEAKER_07 8:32

Right. And so, like, that was how women were viewed in sport and viewed in the hockey space at the time that I was growing up. And so I remember that's always stuck with me because at the point at that point there was no path for women to play hockey. And so it was like, I want to prove this guy wrong, but maybe he's right because I don't have a league to play in. And so those were little comments that have stuck with me that I think are really funny now because out of all of the young boys that I played hockey with, like I'm still the one who's standing and I'm still the one who's playing professional hockey. So take that.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

You remember that guy who said it too?

SPEAKER_07 9:01

I think that's pretty cool. No, I don't remember like who exactly he was, but I know take that. I'm sure my dad would be calling him, but no, I just I do remember that comment being made, and I was like, oh my goodness. So yeah, I feel a little gratified. I'm not like I don't want to hold on to grudges or anything, but it it's funny to think of where we are now.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

I always feel like um rewarded when I go like to high school reunions. I mean, haven't been for quite a while, but when I went back, because I was seen as kind of this mousey, quiet girl that was never really gonna do anything. And you know, it's it's it is rewarding to say, no, I I was in control of my life. I could do whatever I wanted to do, and you're not you don't get to decide whether I'm gonna be successful or not.

SPEAKER_07 9:41

For sure. And I mean, I think of like my journey in high school as well. Like I was so focused on hockey and like bettering myself and bettering my career. Like I don't really think of them as sacrifices because they're things that I wanted to do, but I didn't do like the parties or the dances very often, and I don't think of them as sacrifices. It was because I wanted to play hockey and I wanted to get a full scholarship and get an education. Um, I wanted to eventually like make a national team and play the highest level of hockey I could play. So that was my goal, and I think I I knew that from very early on.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

And you've done that and more. Yeah. What was it like going to the Olympics?

SPEAKER_07 10:14

Oh, incredible. Uh, such a gratifying and humbling moment, like getting that the nod from your coaching staff that it's like, hey, you're coming to the Olympics. That's like realizing a lifelong dream. And I'll never forget, like, I'm called my mom. She was the first one who I called. And she was just absolutely hysterical on the phone. And it just felt like obviously I had accomplished it, but I wouldn't be anywhere without them. And so I think it was like we we got to go to the Olympics together, which was amazing.

SPEAKER_04 10:38

Oh, I love that. And she and and think about the sacrifices that your mom and dad made to help you get, you know, where you are today, right?

SPEAKER_07 10:45

Yeah, like taking you to the ranks and it took a village. Um I know that hockey is a very expensive sport, and my parents didn't have a lot, like we didn't have a lot growing up. And so I remember there were so many people around me who I would get rides, I would get to stay with them at hotels, um, you know, when we were traveling together. Um, you know, there were post-dated checks that my dad was like, maybe don't cash that just yet. But there were so many people around me who wanted to see me succeed and uh who wanted to help my family out. And so, like, there's so many people along the journey that I'm very grateful for because a lot of people have got me to where I am today.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

When did you know you'd made it?

SPEAKER_07 11:19

Oh, I mean, like, I still don't feel like I've made it, you know, it's it's the classic, like you're gonna say that. It's the classic, like you're always reaching for the next thing. And so you I do have to really consciously sit there and be like, wow, I have accomplished some pretty amazing things that seven-year-old me didn't even dream about. I just wanted to play hockey at seven years old, and I've gotten to, through hockey, go to so many different places, locations, events, meet so many incredible people, um, just because that little seven-year-old kid wanted to play hockey. And so I don't think I've made it yet. I don't know if I'll ever make it. Have you made it?

SPEAKER_04 11:52

No, no, that's how I knew you were gonna say it because I I get asked all the time. People say, Oh, you know, like what's it like to be at the top? And I go, I'm like, I am so far from the top. There's so much more to do. There's I just wish I had more time to do it. Like, I just think the exact opposite. And I I never feel successful. I always feel like there's more to do.

SPEAKER_07 12:09

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

And that I could do more, and that I haven't done enough. And you know, I think that's part of probably what drives us.

SPEAKER_07 12:15

Definitely.

SPEAKER_04 12:15

But did you do you think that's an insecurity thing? Or do you think that's like what what is that?

SPEAKER_07 12:20

I think maybe like I think it's also like a little bit of a chip on your shoulder. Like, you always want to prove to yourself first and foremost that you can achieve great things. I I think that obviously you want to prove to other people, but first and foremost, like you have to understand that you have to trust and prove to yourself. Um, and I think that that takes a lot of confidence. And so it could be coming from a place of insecurity, but I do think that it takes a lot of confidence to actually be able to understand that you have to do that.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

Yeah. When you see young women today trying to get break into hockey or trying to build their careers and being told they're probably still being told today, you'll never get you're never, you're never gonna get there, you're not good enough, whatever. You know, um what's what's the empathy you feel for them? Like how do you how do you relate to them? Is it is it from the sports level or is it on a personal level?

SPEAKER_07 13:09

A little bit of both, for sure. Like, I think that there's more of a clear pathway for women to get to professional sports now. And so now there's proof of the pudding, right? You can actually show a young girl, like, hey, this is where you could be one day. You could play in the PWHL, you can be a part of the PWHL in some capacity one day. Um, but from a personal level, like I think that's where I connect most with the young people, and I know that they always want to talk to me about hockey, but I really think the ones that I have the most impact on are the ones who want to speak to me about things outside of hockey. Like, I'll have young girls who look like me who are like, I play hockey, like how do you do your hair? Like, how do you keep your hair like that? And I really think that those conversations are so much more meaningful because they're really connecting with me on a personal level, right? And so those are the ones that really do stick with me because like that's what I would be asking somebody like me if I was in that position. Yeah, right? Like because you're still a girl, because I'm still a girl, right? And we still have things that um we love, and I think that that's been the coolest part about what I've done and using hockey as kind of that vehicle. I feel like now with how I present myself into the world and what I put out and how I want to connect with people, I feel like I'm just bridging the gap that I was like too afraid to cross when I was younger, if that makes sense. No, totally. Yeah, between sport and beauty and fashion and lifestyle. Like I feel like I want to bridge that gap and show girls that like you can wear a dress, but you can also play hockey, and that is totally okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

It's totally okay, but it it's weird that it's not accepted. It's just so weird to me. Like there's so many great athletes who have are really into fashion and really into beauty and really love, you know, like being women, right? Um and yet somehow you and I'm I imagine it's worse in hockey. In business for sure, it really I always felt like I couldn't, you know, I had to be careful, I had to wear a suit, I had to look like you know, one of the guys in order to be accepted. It's gotta have been way worse in hockey. Like, wasn't there like a boys' culture that basically told you who you should be and how you should act?

SPEAKER_07 15:10

Yeah, and I think that traditionally, like femininity is seen as like being weaker, right? And I think people look at me in a dress and be like, oh, she's super feminine. So if maybe she doesn't have what it takes. And I think that that's the narrative that we're looking to change. It's like just because I'm wearing a dress does not mean that I can't be a shark in the boardroom or I can't be a shark on the ice. And that's really the narrative that we want to change, that there are so many levels and layers of femininity. Um, and as women, we're it's okay to embrace that.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

But don't you think haven't you have you ever been in a place where you've had to go up against let me go back a little bit. I I was involved with the CWHL when it was first, you know, started many, many years ago. Yeah. And one of the biggest challenges was getting what challenges that the group had at the time was to get um the men's leagues to support the league. Right. And they they didn't want to, they they literally didn't want to. They didn't want to come out and vocalize that they were in support. And it and and I always felt it was so wrong, and I never understood it. And and maybe helped me understand it. Is it different today for the PWHL? For you know, like is it changing because of you?

SPEAKER_07 16:21

I think for sure we've gone through a period where, especially in sports, men's sports and the players and the people within men's sports have legitimized women's sports. Right. And I think that's it's twofold. It's unfortunate, it's also great acknowledgement, but it's unfortunate. And I I really love with the PWHL was we've really been standing on our own, and there have been support in maybe the background and offshore support, but we have stood on our own.

SPEAKER_04 16:50

Like you had to, because you couldn't raise funds, you couldn't even raise capital, right? Like nobody wanted to support it financially or from a broadcast perspective. Right. So how did you change that?

SPEAKER_07 16:59

So the PWHL um single entity ownership, and so we obviously the CWHL folded as you're aware of. Oh, yeah. And so we had to come together as a group of players and really decide like what do we want to do? How do we want to shape the future of women's hockey? Because that's really what we were holding in our hands was the future of this sport. And so we basically said, we are not going to settle, we're not going to play until there's a professional environment for us to play in. Um people cheered for us every four years at the Olympics, but in between those four years, where were we? What were we doing? And so we were able to come together, um, form a players' union, and we got into talks with Mark Walter and his group. Um, and they came in and they were like, we want to do something with this women's hockey league, so let's create a collective bargaining agreement. So we created a CBA together, um, obviously, which is really important, so that we set out expectations for our side and their side, pay all of that. Um, and we were able to come together, create that. And within six months, six, seven months from creating the CBA, Puck Drop started on year one. And so um, incredible job, obviously, by Billie Jean King. She was a huge supporter from day one, um, continues to be with her uh partner, Alana Klaus, as well. But yeah, it was it came together pretty quickly. But since then we've been standing on our own.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

But you were a big driving force behind that.

SPEAKER_07 18:17

Yeah, we I was very grateful to be sitting in those rooms. I mean, I was alongside Kendall Coyne Scofield, Brianne Jenner, Hillary Knight, and Liz Knox. And so the five of us really uh put our heads together along with our legal team and to be in spaces where like I'm never gonna be in a space like that again. That was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. And I got to see the real, I guess the business behind sport, which I think is interesting because as as a player, you don't often see that. Our jobs are to put pucks in the net and keep pucks out of our own, and you don't necessarily have that pulse from the business side and maybe what ownership is thinking. And I think that that was a cool experience for me.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

Do you wish you were on the business side of it more? Like on the ownership side?

SPEAKER_07 18:59

People always ask me actually, like what I want to do after I'm done playing. I'm so happy playing right now. Like I absolutely still adore the sport. I have a lot of fun, and I think that I'm still pretty good. So I I do I think you're damn good. I think you're more than pretty good. I think you're so I'm having a great time playing, but the ownership, that side really does interest me. I'm I'm not really into coaching. Um I don't think that's necessarily my my strengths or my expertise, but I really do think like ownership, um, that's a really enticing opportunity. Anyone who's listening want to back somebody. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Do you do you th like so? If you could, I guess if you could own something, it would be a team. Yeah. And be involved on that side. But you're you are still playing and you're still very, very good. Um you're at the top of I know you're not gonna say it, but I'll say you're at the top of the game. Um when you guys came second in in 2026 and got the silver silver in the Olympics, you said it was the most fun I've had in a game. And I, or something along, it was like it was the most fun I've had. It was I had a ton of fun. I came second. Most players would have been interviewed saying, Oh my god, you know, I'm I'm you know, devastated we lost, but you were busy cheering on everybody on that team saying, you know, this was an amazing win. I thought that was just such a special thing to do. How did you find that? Weren't you like disappointed? I mean, not that silver's bad, but it's not gold. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 20:24

I was definitely disappointed. Yeah. And I was devastated about the outcome.

SPEAKER_05 20:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 20:29

And I think that's where us as athletes and competitors, and really just people, were so focused on the outcome. And obviously at the end of the day, I didn't get a gold medal. I got a silver medal, which sucks. But when I think of the process and what actually went into that game, I don't know, something about that game. It felt like I was a kid again. And I felt like I was in this flow state. And me and my teammates, it was like we just laid everything out there. And when I look down the lineup, when I look at the 23 players that we had, it was like everybody left everything they had out there. We played the best game that uh we could have possibly played. It was an amazing game. And so when I should have won. There you go, you heard your first. Um, but yeah, when I look back on that game, like I just remember on the bench, like I was just smiling. And I don't usually do that, like I'm pretty bubbly, I'm pretty happy, but I was just smiling during the game. And I every shift I went out, I was like, man, this is just this is great. I'm playing in a packed building in the Olympics, playing for my country. Like, what more could you possibly want? And so yeah, when I think back to that game, like I have such fond memories because I I honestly had a blast on the ice and the outcome was not what we wanted, but I think that sometimes the process is what we forget.

SPEAKER_04 21:37

What's the lesson for like I mean that's part of the lesson, but what is the lesson for people? Because that's a life lesson, isn't it? I mean, you know, back to you when is success success? When is the best you can do? You had done the best on the ice that you you played the best you could. But is that not when why isn't that enough for us? Like what is it that says we you know we we somehow lost what we didn't really lose?

SPEAKER_07 21:58

Yeah, I think it's an ego thing. I really do, yeah. And I think that to some degree to to be a high achiever and want excellence, like you have to have a bit of an ego for sure. But there needs to be some point where it's checked and you understand that the outside world can think what they want, but what matters most is the person who's looking back at me in the mirror, right? And so if I can look at that and say, yeah, it sucked that we got a silver medal, but like, man, like it was a blast doing it with the people that I did it with and the opportunity that I got to have. And so I think at the end of the day, like if you can look yourself in the mirror and be proud and be happy with what you've done, I think that you've done a good job.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

And then right after that, you end up getting mics put in your face and you have to talk to people who ask really shitty questions. Like even I even what I just said, you know, I I felt bad as I said it. Well, it's not like you know, you you shouldn't you shouldn't be disappointed, but I was more just curious how you felt in the moment. But uh sometimes after what those reporters ask, I just kind of go, I it's cringy. Like I just go, really? Like leave them alone. They just, you know, like played their hearts out. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 23:02

Definitely understanding that the media has a job to do. And I think the frustrating part for an athlete is we consume media in a very different way. So for me, I'm not like scrolling, I'm not reading articles about myself, if that makes sense. But you kind of know the narrative that is being spun. And during the Olympics, we knew the narrative that was being spun about our team. And although we didn't get into the weeds with it, I think it was a little disappointing, and and it definitely hurt thinking about kind of the narrative that was being spun. And so you're expecting them to ask these questions, and again, they have a job to do. Um, and you know, we're gonna answer the questions to the best of our ability, but at the end of the day, we are people, and we hurt the same way that you hurt, we feel joy the same way that you feel joy. And I think remembering that behind these athletes, behind these famous people, behind these business executives, like they are people.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Yeah. Do you do you get a lot of media training when you're an athlete at that level so that you can take those questions and and answer them? Because you're very you're very good at listening to what I'm trying to say. I'm stumbling over my words sometimes. You're very, you're very good at hearing the question and very good at giving back a a a good response that answers that question. Is that media training or is that just your own kind of sense of poise? Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both.

SPEAKER_07 24:25

I definitely had some meaning tra media training in my younger days, but what I've found is at the end of the day, you want to connect with people. Right. And the way to connect to people is being genuine and being authentic and not being scripted.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

Right.

SPEAKER_07 24:39

So if I'm asked a question that I don't necessarily want to answer or I don't have a good answer for it, I definitely can speak about what I want to speak about.

SPEAKER_05 24:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 24:47

But when I'm having a conversation like this, and it has to come from a place of authenticity, or else this would be a really tough hour.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

Yeah. No, I didn't mean at all that you sounded scripted. I I just was I just was loving your the attention you were paying. Yeah. You know, like because sometimes you can talk to people and you don't feel like they're really hearing what you're saying to them.

SPEAKER_07 25:08

I think that comes from a little bit of being introverted too. I think that I know this is kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

No, but everybody who comes on, everybody like I have had like, and they're all introverts. Why are we all introverts? So you're introverted? Yes.

SPEAKER_07 25:22

Yeah, I definitely, and when I think of like being an introvert versus an extrovert, like it's just where you get your energy from. And I really get my energy from being alone and being able to reflect. And I think that all of my friends, it's really funny, all of my friends are very extroverted. They love to talk, they're very loud, they love to laugh, and I just love to listen. Like I love being with them and really hearing them. And so I I think that I think that that's honestly what it stems from is just like so many people want to feel seen and heard, and I think that that's something that I've learned along the way.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Maybe I maybe I'm maybe we're all misdiagnosed. I don't know. I feel like because I like I say I'm the same thing. Like I I was talking about this yesterday, saying how much I enjoyed the quiet and coming home and shutting the door and not having and not even music, like just having quiet.

SPEAKER_07 26:08

I agree, and people think that I'm crazy. Like I don't need music. I could just sit on my couch. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 26:13

And just sit there. Yeah, and just contemplate the day. And and I think it's maybe because you're people take a lot of energy from you when you're in public, right? They you have to portray a persona that's you. It's not it's not that it's not authentic, but you can't be seen in a bad mood and you you have to be out there with energy. And sometimes that energy is incredibly draining.

SPEAKER_07 26:36

For sure. Yeah, I always feel bad when I meet people and I'm not having a good day.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 26:41

Because although I do try to put on my best face when I when I meet people, like there's some sort of energy that you can feel coming off of somebody. Like I met a young girl actually at the airport the other day, and the airport was absolutely packed, and um her dad ended up kind of calling me from a little bit of a distance, and so everybody kind of started clocking in, and I was just not, I wanted to get on the plane and go home. And I was just like, Okay, amazing. Hi, nice to meet you. And it it I don't want to come from a place of like being fake, but some days you're just having a bad day, and you just want to be alone, but then you remember like this is an opportunity to connect and have an impact on somebody, and so I hope that when I whenever I meet people, I leave an impact. And I they remember being like, Oh, she was so nice to me, she gave me the time of day, and um, I do. I love to meet people, and I think of how impactful that would have been to me when I was younger.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

I had an incident happen, uh, gosh, I don't know how many years ago it would have been maybe 10 years ago at least. Um, I went to TIFF.

SPEAKER_05 27:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

And I went in and I I was late for a show that was on, and I was invited into the you know the the big special seating area and all that stuff. And it was what the show was kind of at its height of its you know, popularity. And uh the girl that was uh at the front, the woman that was at the front wouldn't let me in because I didn't have my ticket with me, or no, because I was late, sorry, because I was late. And she says, No, I can't seat you. I said, No, like I I need to get in there. It's like there's the back door, and I was I was really impatient, I was really rushed, I felt like overwhelmed at the moment because I knew I was late and I felt bad, and I just wasn't really very nice to her, like it just wasn't. And and I that still haunts me today. Ten years later, I still feel I am sorry if you're watching this. I'm so sorry. I I I felt horrible that I I kind of snapped it and I didn't do it, you know who I am. Yeah, but I was kind of like, come on, like just let me in. Like this is ridiculous. Let me talk to your manager kind of thing, right? Like, who do I think I am? Yeah, and so but it still stays with me. It does.

SPEAKER_07 28:45

There are instances for sure.

SPEAKER_04 28:47

It's awful, yeah. Like because they do, they just wanna they expect you to be and you should be nice to anybody anytime, but I think there's a level of expectation when you're a role model, there is, as you are, right? Yeah to to women um everywhere. Now tell me about judging um drag race.

SPEAKER_07 29:06

Oh, that was like one of the highlights peak of career. Yeah. That was very cool. I think that drag race is something that I've watched for a very long time. Like I've been a fan of the show, and obviously the impact um that drag race has had on the community, but also the world at large. And so I remember when I got presented with that opportunity, I was like, I couldn't say yes fast enough. I was like, get back some tell them, I will be wherever you need me to be. Um, and it was a really cool day. Like, I remember I was in hair and makeup for like three hours because they were like, you can do whatever you want. Like, we can be as high, as high glam as you want. And so I remember I sat in that makeup chair, I got little gems on my eyes, like I was in a sparkly fit. I went all out. Um, and it was very cool. Like, I got to meet people that I'd seen on TV and have made such an impact on the drag um industry, and so it was such a cool opportunity. And the queens are so talented, aren't they? Oh my gosh, like they're all triple, quadruple threads, like they can all sing, dance, act, they're funny. And like I still follow some of them on Instagram, so I get to see how they're doing, but it was such a cool opportunity. And again, like something that I'm a hockey player, like who would have thought that I would be a guest judge on Canada's drag race?

SPEAKER_04 30:13

Yeah. Do you do you like is that a pinch me thing? Like, you know, like I'm here, or is that when you kind of go, Oh wow, like I'm doing something completely different than skating, and for sure, right?

SPEAKER_07 30:23

Yes, like you sit there and you're like, How did I get here? How did I get here? Like, I'm normally on the ice, how did I get to this seat? And I think it's cool because that would have happened probably four years ago, three or four years ago at this point, but people still come up to me and talk about it. And so it's cool to think that like they had seen that episode whenever they've seen it, but it had some sort of impact on them, and they that's a connection point again. And so I think that that's really cool to be able to reach different people.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

Did you did you want to be on TV after that? Or is that is TV something like I mean, you clearly are on TV when you're playing hockey, I get that. But is there a TV career in there for you?

SPEAKER_07 30:59

Yeah, I think the TV industry, like it's a really cool one. Um, I've done some work with SportsNet and Turner as like a panelist on broadcast, like NHL broadcasts, which has been a really cool experience as well. And I hadn't done broadcasts prior to that, and they kind of threw me to the wolves. I was on live TV. Um, but it was excellent. Like I absolutely loved it. Like the thrill of being on TV, live TV is is pretty cool, unlike something, unlike anything else, really. And so um, it's cool. Cameras don't really scare me, pretend they're not there, and it's like you're just having a conversation. And I mean, as a hockey analyst, I'm sharing my expertise. Um, and if I'm able to effectively communicate that, then I'd be a pretty good hockey broadcaster. But yeah, I definitely think that it'd be cool. Again, to broadcast yourself there.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

Yeah, we're dropping a lot of what you you could do. Like you can own a team, you want to be like maybe you should have your own show, your own broadcast show. Or would you do something like drag race, which is completely different outside of hockey? Would you want to do something completely different?

SPEAKER_07 31:59

I would love to. I think that when I finish my career, I probably am gonna take a little bit of a step away from the game just to really allow myself to have that. I've been playing hockey for 25 years at this point, and it's been a central part of my life for 25 years. So I I envision myself when I do step away from the game, I'm probably gonna remove myself more than people expect, but I always think that there's gonna be a way back for me, and I don't anticipate leaving hockey or leaving sport forever. Like it's a part of me, it's a part of who I am, it's what I love.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

I mean, Haley, what did she do? She went and got her medical degree. She's a doctor, and then she's still Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 32:36

Superwoman.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

I thought, of course you did. Of course you COVID, what am I gonna do? I'll go, I'm gonna become a doctor. I like didn't we all think that's a good idea? Exactly. Like I sure did. Just something to do on a Tuesday. But like I think that's that's again that elite athlete kind of determination and perseverance and like inner strength. Like I there's an inner strength with athletes that I know that is uh like unlike any other even business people out there most elite don't seem to have that same kind of I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

I think I think it's a discipline.

SPEAKER_07 33:12

Yeah, I and I think that discipline, like people people think of discipline as negative a lot of the times. When I think about discipline, it's like it's very internal and it's like you showing up for the version of yourself that you want to be. And in that right, it should be a very positive thing. And so when I think about elite athletes, I think about they have goals of who they want to be and what league they want to play in and how good they want to be. And so when I'm at the gym and six at six o'clock in the morning doing a workout that I don't want to do, it's not necessarily for the version of me today, that's for the version of me in eight, ten, twelve months when I want to be lifting a Walter Cup and winning a championship. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

It does. I think we could all use a little bit of that though, because you know it's it's like why you work out because you want to be a healthy future person as opposed to and healthy today, but you also want to be healthy in the future. For sure. It's the same thing as what you're talking about, right?

SPEAKER_07 34:08

And when you're disciplined, you're building habits, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:11

When your cousin Kia and you do you ever get together for dinner?

SPEAKER_07 34:15

It's so difficult these days, especially like our seasons are opposite, and she's been in the States for so long. And so it's actually gonna be nice that she's in Toronto. I'm gonna be in Toronto for the summer because I think we're gonna have a way better opportunity to connect more. Um, her and I were like thickest thieves as kids. Like, I wasn't going to grandma without her going to grandma, and so it's cool just to watch her career develop and be able to chat with her and talk. Like uh seeing her come to the tempo this year has been like amazing. Like seeing her have her homecoming because she's done so much for basketball in Canada and raising the level of uh awareness, one, but also just the level of excellence um that she's had, and I think it's been pretty inspiring. So it's really cool to see her have a huge homecoming here.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

What do you think about the tempo coming to that that team was that team has been created here? What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_07 35:05

Uh it's incredible. I think from like a business standpoint, it's been really cool to see the buzz that has been created because it's been like a two or three-year process. You know, they didn't just land this month, like they've been working for the last few years. And so from a business perspective, I think that's like incredibly smart. And I feel like the tempo's been here for a few years, even though they just got here. But it's it's great for basketball in Canada to be able to have a WNBA team. There's such a demand for it, and obviously that we only have one yet. Uh hopefully we have more in the future, but it's cool, it's gonna be Canada's team, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

I know. I wish that I had that from a lost business opportunity.

SPEAKER_07 35:42

Yeah, I wish I got in on it.

SPEAKER_04 35:44

I wish I'd gotten in on it because I I always thought it was such a great idea. And I um I talk to Kate Burness about this all the time, who who also says, you know, like because she loves basketball, she's a basketball nut, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you now do you know Kate outside of her as a broadcaster? I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 36:01

She she's a pretty incredible woman. I mean, obviously she is who she is on the broadcast table, but like her away from that, um, she's just she's so loyal and she's so caring and compassionate, and being able to get to know her and her goals and her ideas, um, being able to work on um her events that she has too, which obviously empower young girls in sport, young people in sport. And so she's done some pretty amazing things uh off of the field of play for people in sport.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

Yeah. Do you are there women that you look at like you've got you said Haley kind of went before you? Do you think it requires like are you setting a trail for the generation that's coming after you? Do you feel like you have um created an are you are you making the sport more open? I guess is the question.

SPEAKER_07 36:48

Yeah, I think that's really been my goal, especially as I've come into adulthood and kind of the position that I've been put in, um, is really making hockey feel inclusive for everybody. Um I think for a long time I had a weird relationship with hockey that I had so much fun playing the sport, I love playing the sport, but I didn't necessarily felt like it was it loved me back. And so I think that I want to create an environment for young people to feel like they belong. And I think that especially in Canada, like we're such a multicultural society. Um, our national sport or our favorite sport should really reflect that in the people who play it. And so I definitely um inclusivity is always at the top of mind.

SPEAKER_04 37:27

So when you say it didn't love you back, you just felt like it was you were still an outsider, even though you were an elite athlete.

SPEAKER_07 37:33

For sure. Yeah, I I look back growing up and I think that my ability carried me through the sport, and that's what makes that's what made me worry looking back because man, if I hadn't been good, if I hadn't been scoring goals and helping my team win games, like would they have actually wanted me on the team? And that's something that, hey, I don't know the answer to, but I would never want a young person who uh maybe isn't the best player on their team to feel like an outsider within the group of people that really should love them the most.

SPEAKER_04 38:02

Yeah. Is that a conversation you had around the dining room table with your mom and dad? Like what gave you that kind of courage and confidence? Like I I because it has to be instilled, I think, in a young age, don't you think?

SPEAKER_07 38:16

Yeah, I think that like I like I mentioned, like my parents did such a great job of like sheltering me from any hurt or any bad. And they always just encouraged me to let my play do the talking, and that was always the resounding message to me. And if there was any negativity, like they didn't want it to affect me and my play, and they said, you know what, you don't have to say anything to anybody, just let your play do the talking. And so that was always the messaging to me. And I mean, they always hype me up, they're my biggest fans. I will say, probably my biggest critics as well, but my biggest fans, and so they made sure um that I knew that you know I was good, I was valued, and that you know, I deserved a place on the team, and so I think that that confidence from them really helped.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

Was it critical in terms of your play or critical in terms of just how you could do more personally? Like critical.

SPEAKER_07 39:02

I definitely think younger was my play for sure. Yeah. I mean, like my dad, I remember he would tell me like once I figured out how to score goals and I was scoring goals, he was like, Okay, now I need you to figure out how to be a good teammate and how to set your teammates up for success. And I think that that was something that I learned early on as well was yeah, you can score goals, but you should want to make the players around you better. And so that was something that he really tried to teach me. And I think that's one of my strengths on the ice of um being able to help my teammates and get the best out of them, but also the versatility. Um, I think that that's what I bring on the ice. Like, if you want me to score a goal, I can go out there and score a goal. If you want me to go hit somebody, I can go out there and hit somebody. And so I think that's what I take pride in most of my game.

SPEAKER_04 39:43

Your dad did a really, very, really good job with that.

SPEAKER_07 39:46

We're not gonna tell him that.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

No, it's gonna be Dad, you did well. You did good, Dad. Um I don't know if you'll watch this, but you did.

SPEAKER_07 39:54

Oh, they watch everything, they're so cute. Do they? They're so cute, yeah. Like they'll whenever I like I'm on TV or do an interview, like my parents are dialed in. They'll listen to every everything I do. So they're very supportive.

SPEAKER_03 40:05

Um are you an only child?

SPEAKER_07 40:06

No, I have two brothers.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

You have two brothers, yeah. And are your brothers in sports?

SPEAKER_07 40:10

They're younger. So I have a little, I have two younger brothers, and one of them is playing in the East Coast League for Florida right now. And so they're actually in Yeah, they're in the conference championship right now, and so we're cheering him on.

SPEAKER_04 40:20

That's that's that's what does the other brother do?

SPEAKER_07 40:23

That's not he is a manager at a retail location, so he doesn't play anymore. Uh but he I would say he's probably on the ice the same as Mount as we are because he coaches and referees, so he's still within the sport.

SPEAKER_04 40:35

Still within the sport. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I feel like, yeah, that's that's a that's a pretty athletic family. And and did your mom play a sport too?

SPEAKER_07 40:42

My mom actually didn't play any sports. Didn't play. Okay, I had that wrong. My mom did not play any sports. She has like never ever. I just saw her run for the first time in my entire life a few years ago, and it was crazy. I was like, you're actually fast. What are you doing? Yeah, but no, she didn't play sports growing up. Yeah, I'm sure I had that wrong. Yeah, she definitely she like put me in girl guides growing up, like really wanted me into the girly things. The girly things? Yeah, and then I was into hockey and soccer and basketball. And so I've come back to the girly things for sure, but growing up, she was like, I don't know what to do with this hockey playing child.

SPEAKER_04 41:15

But but she managed to still like imbue a lot of femininity in too. So she got you got both. Exactly. And I don't think there's anything, like I think that's I think that's great. I think embracing who we are as women and also being strong who we are in our professional lives is absolutely the it's the win. For sure, as far as I'm concerned. That's where you can go, yeah, that's a win. I can be who I am and look how I do and act like I want because I'm you know who I am as a human, but I also have this professional side. And the and the things are I think they're a little bit different. I mean I don't know, like sometimes I think that I'm I guess I I always say to people, you know, who you show up to in a boardroom should be the same person you are outside of the boardroom. Like you can't put on a cloak and be a different person when you are interacting with other people, but yet you do have different skill sets. So I my insecurities come from I have a lot of insecurity about my appearance and you know my physicality. I have zero insecurity about my business acumen, like zero.

SPEAKER_07 42:15

And it's a very it's so interesting, right? Right, because you're such a confident person, but then you're like, I have these insecurities, and you don't project that at all, which is so interesting because we're all like that, right? Like we all have those insecurities that people would absolutely never, ever, ever think of. But I think that just brings us back to being like multifaceted, multidimensional people and understanding I suppose. Right? What are you insecure about? Like, I what am I insecure about? I think that I'm it's actually funny, like I get very insecure about like my intelligence. So even coming to speak with you today, and I'm like, obviously, you're this very high-powered, incredible with business, and I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm just a hockey player.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

Come on, right? I've made like six mistakes in this interview. Like, I had your mom, I I I I don't know, I've made all sorts of I mean, part of that is just my memory's going to hell, you know. So I'm gonna chalk it up to that. But yeah, that's kind of your intelligence.

SPEAKER_07 43:12

Yeah, I definitely make my intelligence and like and again, like me being introverted, like I always I'm I'm very conscious of maybe I'm not like the best storyteller, or you know, I'm not the one who's like speaking up in my friend group. But those are like little things that I'll think about. Like I'm not gonna be in the middle of the table at on a at a dinner party, you know? Maybe you have an outside, yeah, you have an outside girl.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

I have to don't put me on the me on the button I feel like I'm exactly the same. Like I'll sit at the end and be like, no, sit here. I'm going, no, I cannot, because then I have to talk to two people and the people across from me, and I don't want to do all of that.

SPEAKER_07 43:46

Like I just want to kind of listen, I want to have somebody that I can have a little side combo with, but no, that's where like my comfort zone is. And so I think for me, like the biggest thing is like stepping outside of my comfort zone. That's where like I have to jump because if I think about it, I'm never gonna do it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

That's that's that's fascinating. When I look at you, introvert would not have said, but we all carry these things with us. And I don't know how as a generation, like I'm certainly much older than you, and you think about trying to instill in you know young the young generation. I'm talking about, you know, girls in their teens or eight years old, kind of just coming up and you know, figuring out who they are. How you get them to understand that you know the insecurities are just not valid. It's a really tough thing. There's so much in the media that says look this way, act this way, you know, you gotta be thin, you gotta be beautiful, you gotta have, you know, whatever, right? But it's just not true. No.

SPEAKER_07 44:47

No, it's not. Like I think of so many people who have done great things, like they come from different backgrounds, they look a certain way, they look differently, they speak differently. I think that goes back to like expectations, like their expectations and standards and like maybe stereotypes even that are placed on young girls. And so to be able to, I think that's like what we can do to help the next generation is really humanize ourselves and understand that, yeah, of course, maybe I don't appear introverted because I'm maybe maybe my face is on a billboard, right? And so you wouldn't think that, but I think having conversations like these really are impactful because it helps humanize people.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

Yeah. Yeah. There's a path forward where you can actually find yourself and be yourself. I always wanted to be an actress when I was younger. That's so cool. But you know I didn't go to Hollywood, yeah. Because I didn't think I was good looking enough and pretty enough.

SPEAKER_05 45:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:43

But you know, I I was I was of a generation where it was, you know, it was like 17 magazine and you know, like it was like cosmopolitan, and there was everything that was out there was about the the look that was had nothing to do with what I was.

SPEAKER_07 45:59

100%.

SPEAKER_04 46:00

Did you ever feel that way or did you Yeah, I mean definitely growing up.

SPEAKER_07 46:04

I feel like I I feel like I grew up at like a very like pivotal time where I feel like I've seen the change of media, internet, access, and like the narrative around women and their bodies. And so I think that that's super interesting because I remember when like Jessica Simpson and like Hilary Duff were on the front pages of these magazines and they were probably like a size four and people were calling them fat. Body shame. Right. And so I remember that, but then I've also seen this huge shift towards body positivity and seeing like the first plus size model on the cover of like a major magazine. And so I feel like when I was really young, I remembered like as a hockey player, I was like, I don't want to have hockey playing thighs. I don't want to go to the gym because I don't want my thighs to be big, because I want to look like a girl on the magazines. And so that was me when I was really young, and then probably in like my formative years when I was like 13, 14, 15, I feel like we kind of started to shift and change from that very Eurocentric, blonde, thin, uh, ideal image of what a woman should look like. And so now I think within the last five, 10 years, maybe I think it's done a much better job of being diverse and inclusive and letting people know that we all have different body types, we have different skin colors, skin tones, and it all makes us special and unique.

SPEAKER_04 47:22

Yeah. Although I still think that we have a long way to go. I think that's true, but there's still a long way to go because there's still so much. I I you know, you see the fashion shows, etc., and I just I just want to give them a sandwich. It's okay, eat a sandwich, it'll be I I I can't imagine the stress and the pressure they're under.

SPEAKER_07 47:41

Or even maybe like something as simple as like, well, fashion models they need to be the sample size. Right. What is the sample size? Why isn't the sample size like a 12?

SPEAKER_04 47:50

Right. Why is it a zero? Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_07 47:51

So like it's it's little things like that that seem micro, but maybe could make like the biggest difference.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Yeah, I always wanted to create a fashion line too, because of clothes for women that had bodies like mine, you know, like I've always been, you know, a more rounded body, and yet it's impossible to find you know high fashion clothes. You really have to look and right, you must experience that too.

SPEAKER_07 48:11

I experience it all the time. Like, I think I work with an incredible stylist, and there are times that like we look at items and I can't get an item that's like big enough for me because my body's shaped a little bit differently. So maybe my like waist is an eight, but my hips and my booty are a 10, and they don't make them that big. Right. And so I think that that's that's where that size inclusivity, I think, is a really big factor.

SPEAKER_04 48:35

So out of this, we're gonna start a fashion line. We are for sure starting a fashion line.

SPEAKER_07 48:39

I think that's what we figured out.

SPEAKER_04 48:41

That's what we figured out we're gonna start a fashion line, and that it's okay to have a body that is not a size zero. It's also okay to have a body that is not a size 20. Like it just doesn't matter, be whatever size you are that you're comfortable in. And but there there just aren't enough and and that's another thing that happened to me. I don't know why I'm I'm telling you more that it's death that happened to me than it happened to you, but I but uh, you know, like I actually when I did want to start a fashion line about 20 years ago, I was in my 40s, and I thought, oh, like for older women, like I don't know, like I I thought I was old at the time. I am now officially older, but I don't think of myself as old. I just think of myself as older. Yeah. But then I thought, okay, there's no line of fashion for women that are older. That's that's hip. Like, why do you have to dress like like in boring stupidma?

unknown 49:27

Yeah, like grandma.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

Whatever that means, yeah. But then I start to wear pants with elastic weights and I waist, and I got it. Yeah. You're like, oh, this makes sense. Yeah, I understand why you wear flat shoes and waist, well, you know, pants with elastic waists. It's like just more comfortable. So they're actually smart.

SPEAKER_07 49:45

For sure. Yeah, they're ahead of the curve.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

Yeah. But we're gonna start a fashion. Yeah, I like that. Um, so much to talk about. I I feel like you are so multifaceted, and you're you're just a genuinely nice person. I you are genuinely a nice person. Um, and I always ask people if they have anything they want to say to you know, people that are watching the show. What would you say to the world right now? In the given the circumstances of the world right now, what would you like to tell people?

SPEAKER_07 50:13

Yeah, I think that I would say that sometimes the world can feel like a bit of a scary place, a big place, um, with a lot of unfairness. And I think that at the end of the day, what we can control is ourselves and what we put out into the world. And I think that if we follow our gut, our intuition, our passions, like we are going to find our communities and the people that make us feel safe and and feel whole. And so I really think, especially as women, like our gut is one of the most important things that can lead us to the places that we're supposed to be. So listening to that gut, I think is is very important. Lean into being a woman. 100%. Lean into being a woman. We love women. We love women, we love women in power. And women should be in power.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

I'm with you. That's that's what that's the next thing we'll work on. We'll do the fashion line. Yes, and at the same time, we're gonna you know do a movement towards putting women in power. Because that you know, we are not too emotional. No, we actually know what the hell is going on, right? Absolutely. All right, Sarah, thank you so very much. You've just been so much fun to talk to. That hour just went by so quickly. So um, wherever you are on your journey, follow Sarah's journey because she has an amazing story, and uh trailblazers are hard to come by. So when you find one, make sure you uh walk in their path because you'll be the better for it. So thank you for joining me today. Yeah, thanks, Sarah.